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Post by MisterM on Dec 27, 2012 5:51:16 GMT -5
Look at the frist message for changes to the reading schedule. Notes on Book 6 to follow
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Post by Dante on Dec 27, 2012 10:40:12 GMT -5
I'll miss most of what's left of TEE and TVV, but don't be disheartened.
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Post by Christmas Chief on Dec 27, 2012 12:24:23 GMT -5
Apologies for not keeping up with discussion earlier, but I hope to post some thoughts on TEE today. Watch for updates. ~ Chapters One through Six ~ Again, Sunny’s size is compared to food – salami this time. Thanks to the doorman’s joke, anytime I hear the expression “It’s all uphill/downhill from here” I have to think about whether this is a good or bad thing. Despite Dark Avenue having gone to great lengths to keep the streets in total darkness, candles soften the absoluteness of this decision. Clearly, then, there is some leeway in what is declared "in" or "out" (though I don’t think we see candles in Esmé and Jerome’s apartment – one wonders how the latter was able to prepare a martini in such lighting). -- Is it significant that Esmé is the city’s sixth most important financial advisor? She takes great pride in her status, though I should suppose her character would aspire to be first. “I wanted to adopt you from the moment I heard about the fire. But, unfortunately, it was impossible.” Because orphans were out, or for some other reason? Jerome later states, somewhat contrary to his earlier statement, “I feel awful that you’ve had such terrible experiences, and that we could have cared for you the entire time.” Possibly Jerome is torn between his loyalty to Esmé and his good conscious? Does Esmé know at this point the Quagmires are in Olaf’s clutches? If so, she does a fine job disguising this fact. I was going to say that it would have been ironic if the phone call announcing dark is out instead announced elevators were in – but of course we don’t want to look too closely at the elevator logistics. At least not yet. I think the “most expensive trees in the world” description is just meant to be humorous. It highlights the Squalor’s wealth in a less subtle and more flagrant way. -- According to LS.com, by the way, Klaus’s favorite book is likely a volume of an encyclopedia: The Complete History Of Absolutely Everything, Volume 127 - Cauldron to Caution. “I’d rather spend some money on putting the elevator back in use.” Supposedly, though, it isn’t out of use – it’s simply out. -- Okay, given the exchange Esmé has with Gunther in front of the orphans, I find it more believable she was acting earlier. After Olaf’s earlier schemes one forgets villains can also be competent. “Why, Klaus, I’m surprised at you! A well-read person such as yourself should know he made a few grammatical errors.” Jerome reprimands Klaus for his inability to recognize grammatical errors, not his impoliteness. There’s a certain play on priorities here. The bounds imposed by social convention are portrayed brilliantly in this chapter. It fits well with the superficial upper-class theme Esmé and her apartment embody so well. Also, if you are going to slide down a banister, the way to go about it is backwards and stomach first. It’s far safer, though you have to rely on your other senses to know when to slow down. -- “They had to look up at the evening sky to remind themselves that they were not underwater.” It’s funny reading this in terms of TGG, when the Baudelaires were similarly confused about their standing oxygen-wise. For someone who can’t stand arguing, Jerome is rather good at it. Well, until the bit about the mountain lion. I’m a bit perplexed by the doorman’s instructions here. Is there a communication problem between Olaf and his henchmen? Why would the doorman allow Jerome to ascend up the stairs if Olaf had specifically ordered him not to do so? If the doorman knows about the ersatz elevator, could he have known Olaf was using it? And why was it important for Olaf to have left the apartment before the Baudelaires' return in the first place? The Baudelaires leaning against "two sets of elevator doors" definitely implies there are two elevators, I think. If a “set” constitutes as a “pair” – that is, two doors parting at the center – then two sets would mean two elevators. -- “‘Hansel and Gretel … those two dim-witted children in that fairy tale.’ ‘Of course,’ Klaus said. ‘That brother and sister who insist on wandering around the woods by themselves.’” I think the Baudelaires are missing something here. Anyway, just what do they plan to do if they do find Gunther? |
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Post by Christmas Chief on Dec 28, 2012 10:32:15 GMT -5
Sorry for the double post, and the large block of text, for that matter. Next week's notes should be more evenly distributed.
~Chapters Seven through Thirteen~
“‘Actually, I’m an actor,’ the doorman said.” Is he not giving something away here?
Even if the second elevator could stop only on the top floor, in what way would that make it useless? Certainly it would come in handy for the Baudelaires.
“By the time my research led me to this passageway, the cage was empty, and had been empty for a very long time.” According to this, then, Lemony is one or three steps behind the Baudelaires. If we take it that the whole series was written this way, this sheds an interesting light on Lemony’s presence in TPP.
--
How are the Baudelaires able to see the Quagmires’ faces despite the absolute darkness described earlier?
It’s too bad the oven’s highest temperature is 500 degrees Fahrenheit and not 451 - but then, the Baudelaires aren't burning books.
--
“My former acting teacher will finally get his hands on not one but two enormous fortunes!” So Esmé took acting lessons after all! And from Olaf, who is a “terrible actor.” Something must have come of the lessons, though, because I can definitely see why someone could imagine Esmé as not villainous but another poor guardian. Her aloofness to the Quagmire case at the beginning is most convincing.
“I want to steal from you the way Beatrice stole from me.” I imagine Beatrice’s theft was always the primary motivating force for Esmé. She would just view the acquisition of more money, and its in status, as beneficiary side effects.
--
Lemony is the thirteenth owner of the map, which is, of course, entirely appropriate.
“In the hopes that the general public will finally learn every detail of the treacherous conspiracy I have spent my life trying to escape.” Is this the same conspiracy the Snicket Files endeavor to expose?
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Post by MisterM on Dec 28, 2012 12:02:44 GMT -5
Thats okay Sherry, im posting the rest of my notes here. I will read and comment on yours first thing tomorrow, before kicking of TVV. How can Fernald hold all these objects? Plus, how can he open a bottle of glue? And, now repeating what has been said before - The Baudilares long Night, starting when They climb down for Three hours. So, The quagmires were smuggled back into the city, after being smuggled out at the end of TAA. The Baudelaires go back up, and then down the elevator shaft again, adding 6 more hours to the journey. “I want to steal from you the way Beatrice stole from me.” “What are you talking about?’’ - There have been discussion about whether this makes sense knowing who Beatrice is or not, but it seems pretty much how Klaus should react to hearing his mothers name to me. And now my favourite moment of the book. Sunny climbing the elevator shaft. *sigh* This is even more unrealistic than the sword fighting in TMM. Which leads me to saying, the shaft is described as being ;ashy’, ashes from the Baudelaire mansion. Assuming the Baudelaires fell halfway down the shaft, then sunny climbing up would have taken about 1 and a half hours, plus add on another half and hour for the fact its with teeth. This gives us 14 hours of climbing. With very little food the earlier day. The return to the Baudelaire mansion is very chilling, and something That surprised me very much on the first read. Its also one of those scenes I would have loved to have seen in the movie. Then again, maybe the impact would be lessened due to the audience having seen the destroyed Baudelaire mansion in the previous film? And so the whole plot of the book was To smuggle the quagmires back into the city to.. Er, smuggle them out again  |
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Post by Christmas Chief on Dec 28, 2012 13:54:33 GMT -5
How can Fernald hold all these objects? Plus, how can he open a bottle of glue? I imagine he's adapted to his hook-handed lifestyle by now, more skilled with hooks than a normal person would be due to his frequent use of them. Yes, I don't think Handler did himself any favors by attaching numbers to the climb. It might have made more sense if the Baudelaires lost track of time, it was "a long long long way down," etc. I imagine the way up would take considerably more time anyway. Plus, after the second or third time, we have to factor in fatigue. (Although we might dismiss that by way of adrenaline.) I'm not sure. For some reason I have a better time picturing Sunny sinking her teeth into soft mortar and using the bite marks to hoist herself higher up the shaft than I do Dr. Orwell fighting teeth with a sword cane. Since we're already suspending our disbelief by allowing Sunny to climb the shaft at all, why not allow it to take up less time? That is if it becomes problematic - which I don't think it does, besides the Baudelaires' absolute exhaustion they must experience after the night's activities. I do think the movie did a fine job encapsulating the moment that is experienced again during this scene in TEE. Although the postman's reaction would have been nice to see as well. Relocate in general, I think, in an attempt to capture the Baudelaires while keeping the Quagmires imprisoned. |
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Post by Dante on Dec 28, 2012 16:58:44 GMT -5
TEE was apparently submitted late and Handler had to rush to complete it. It's one of a couple of books that really needs a slight rewrite to tighten up certain elements. But what we have is fun. I’m a bit perplexed by the doorman’s instructions here. Is there a communication problem between Olaf and his henchmen? Why would the doorman allow Jerome to ascend up the stairs if Olaf had specifically ordered him not to do so? If the doorman knows about the ersatz elevator, could he have known Olaf was using it? And why was it important for Olaf to have left the apartment before the Baudelaires' return in the first place? I think there must simply have been some miscommunication or failure to set down clear plans between Olaf and Fernald. As to why Olaf needed to leave the apartment before the Baudelaires return, if he didn't hear the Baudelaires come in, they and Jerome might catch him plotting and/or romancing with Esmé, which would quite put an end to his schemes. One of many clues in the puzzle that is TEE. If only it was a puzzle that worked a little better. Because of how ASoUE's been written up to this point, I think it's easy to overlook this line. Only at the top floor means no other floors, not even the ground floor. The Baudelaires would only be able to access it from the top floor and it would go neither up nor down, it'd just sit there. It wouldn't be an elevator, it'd be a closet. It could just be V.F.D. There's another book - THH, I think - in which he describes the organisation as "swarming with corruption," and in ATWQ he seems fairly ambivalent about the organisation. This may also be reflective of a shift behind the scenes, in Handler's planning, of what exactly V.F.D. is. |
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Post by MisterM on Dec 31, 2012 6:48:36 GMT -5
Thanks to the doorman’s joke, anytime I hear the expression “It’s all uphill/downhill from here” I have to think about whether this is a good or bad thing. I heard this used the other day, and, in my family anyway, it genreally seems to be downhill - worse, uphill - better. I suppose focusing on the dwon part more than the hill Being the most important financial advisor is to simple. Sixth gives it the snicket twist Why that one in paticular? All Adults in UE World have got their priorities totally screwed So what is a pair of sets? or a set of pairs? I'm not sure. For some reason I have a better time picturing Sunny sinking her teeth into soft mortar and using the bite marks to hoist herself higher up the shaft than I do Dr. Orwell fighting teeth with a sword cane. AND NOW.... BOOK SEVEN. For Two weeks, as i dotn think any of us can cram it in that quickly. Notes tomorrow. |
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Post by Christmas Chief on Jan 1, 2013 10:51:44 GMT -5
I heard this used the other day, and, in my family anyway, it genreally seems to be downhill - worse, uphill - better. I suppose focusing on the dwon part more than the hill Oh, I'm aware of the proper definitions. It's just that it takes me a few moments to process that "uphill" in fact means better, and "downhill," worse. I don't think it bears any particular significance beyond that of assigning Klaus a book that covers the history of the world, and therefore his interests as a researcher. As you mentioned earlier, the specificity gives it the "Snicket twist." "Set" implies a plural. So you can have a book, or a set of books, for instance. In the case of elevator doors, a set can't mean more than two. Therefore, a "pair" of "sets" would mean two sets of two doors each, or two elevators each containing two doors. My notes are ready. I await your initiation. |
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Post by Anka on Jan 2, 2013 6:31:14 GMT -5
Sorry that I didn't finish book 6 with you, first I was ill and then there was Christmas... So book 7 now.
Chapter 1:
- When the Baudelaires complain about the „for reasons unknown“ in the article just because they know it, it's too much. And the reason they know (because they're terrible people) isn't really a reason, at least not one that should be mentioned in a newspaper article.
- „the most recent guardian he had found for them was Esmé Squalor“ - What about Jerome? So only the negative things are mentioned here.
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Post by MisterM on Jan 2, 2013 6:51:38 GMT -5
-- Chapter One--
What about Jerome? So only the negative things are mentioned here. - Maybe, for those who hadnt read the previous book, Its unneceary to go into Jerome?
Also, This chapter has the first Appeaerance of The Littlest Elf, which I believe is supposedly written by snicket himself?
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Post by Christmas Chief on Jan 2, 2013 15:29:31 GMT -5
Yes, the UA would imply Snicket wrote TLE. I address this a bit below.
~Chapter One~
Interesting that the cover art on the HC editions focuses on Klaus and Sunny, and hints at Violet’s presence in the background. TEE did the opposite, and this provides a nice balance.
Lemony seems to switch between lauding The Littlest Elf for its cheerfulness and good spirit, and condemning it for its sentimentality and tediousness (though never within the same book).
Journalism is treated harshly in TVV, but equally I don’t think we see examples of alternative measures taken to ensure accuracy? I find this odd given Duncan’s interest in journalism and Jacques’s past as a writer for The Daily Punctilio. Additionally, I’m not sure the Baudelaire’s criticisms of the “Count Omar” article are all fair. The Baudelaires themselves thought the Quagmires were twins upon first meeting them, and I’m sure enough sources would agree with that misconception that the journalist wouldn’t feel the need to access the Quagmire’s birth records. Olaf easily could have had someone from the inside disguise his name, the way Lemony served as an assistant obituary spell-checker. And “it’s because they’re terrible people” is a grand generalization to begin with, let alone putting it in a newspaper article – the idea is to stay objective.
I think Mr. Poe’s “It’s not as if you would be tucked into bed by three thousand people at once” is speaking more generally about villages than about the Village of Fowl Devotees in particular. The children haven’t selected their home yet, and V.F.D. doesn’t seem as though it would contain quite so many people, anyway.
V.F.D. is abbreviated in the brochure somewhat pretentiously, as if everyone knows what it stands for. Perhaps it stood for something else at one time, more directly related to the organization.
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Post by Ellie Spinelli on Jan 2, 2013 19:38:35 GMT -5
- When the Baudelaires complain about the „for reasons unknown“ in the article just because they know it, it's too much. And the reason they know (because they're terrible people) isn't really a reason, at least not one that should be mentioned in a newspaper article. Their complaints are probably less of a critique on journalism and more an indication of general frustration and disappointment. The paragraph goes on to mention that the primary problem the Baudelaires have is the absence of any mention of their relationship with the Quagmires and their personal feelings on the matter. Being that closely connected to the situation, and especially just after going through such a failure in rescuing their friends, it's quite natural for them to be unreasonably critical. What about Jerome? So only the negative things are mentioned here. - Maybe, for those who hadnt read the previous book, Its unneceary to go into Jerome? Olaf and Esmé are mentioned specifically as supporting evidence for the "dangerous positions" in the previous sentence. Jerome himself wasn't dangerous -although I suppose that could be argued- so he would fall under the all-inclusive 'unpleasant circumstances.' As you say, it would be unnecessary to elaborate. Page 14: "a new guardian program" Page 15: "99% of the orphans participating in this program were overjoyed" -- I wonder how much time they allowed for the program to work before surveying the orphans. What happened to the 1%? <insert amusing yet unfortunate series of other events> Gotta love marketing  I will attempt to participate in the re-read now, is there a particular structure involved? Do each of us post our own notes or only certain people and the rest comment/add in as needed? |
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Post by Charlie on Jan 2, 2013 20:07:18 GMT -5
Olaf and Esmé are mentioned specifically as supporting evidence for the "dangerous positions" in the previous sentence. Jerome himself wasn't dangerous - although I suppose that could be argued- so he would fall under the all-inclusive 'unpleasant circumstances.' As you say, it would be unnecessary to elaborate. Certainly not with Jerome. He hates arguing |
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Post by Christmas Chief on Jan 2, 2013 20:49:35 GMT -5
I will attempt to participate in the re-read now, is there a particular structure involved? Do each of us post our own notes or only certain people and the rest comment/add in as needed? Post your own notes whenever you like, doing your best to remain within the time constraints posted by Mister MD in the first post. You are also welcome and encouraged to respond to other's notes, as indeed you've done, and likewise expect commentary on your own. |
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