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Post by Isadora Is a Door on Jul 18, 2013 5:23:38 GMT -5
Good on you for noticing that. Of course, Olaf may have lied to Carmelita, because buying a shiny new pirate ship would be taken better by her than him dragging a musty old one out of storage. The End (and TBL, at that) definitely retcons the ship's origins, anyway. Also the fiurehead seems to not really fit in at all with the rest of the story, but more on that later (Also, apoloies if my spellin is qorse than normal. several keys on my laptop appear to not be workin) Well, from the way i see it, it seemed to me as thouh there are two ways of readin it. One is the way you jsut described, or the other is that lemony is simply sayin that apticualr harpoon doesnt kill mr poe. Im unsure thouh, as i seem to have lost my copy of TPP... I think in an arlier draft maybe this was slihtly diferent, but handler forot to chane this line? However, in the end i recall a line where lemony says they outriht murderded him, which is not correct. Well, the sinsiter duo certainly miht... Althouh i am interested in exactly what this sandwhich tells lemony. I dont rmeber if its aid or not. Well, if we are oin for that, then i would prefer them still to be triplets. I dont know why, but that just seems to fit more Okay so backgammon. I'm just saying a thing. Backgammon boards typically open likes briefcases do they not? Anyway, presuming that, it's likely that her finger got crushed by the box as it was slammed shut, possibly due to Lemony being seen. IDK. Just a thought. I think that is quite correct. The only time i have seen anythin of backgammon is in lost, so i dont really know. I assume there is just some sort on entrance in the basement? Or maybe a magical portal in the clock... All i could think of here was an epsidoe opf heroes wher hiro had to stab ando for some reason, and then he faked it with a fake sword and blood. I havent really done the scene justice to be fair, but there you go. But i doubt that would have been the case here. I myself have not had a harpoon in my chest, but i doubt i would survive the experience Thats not a bad idea actually *jots down the idea in list of story ideas* A VERY good point there. Hold on, I'll sketch out a shoddy diagram: Dante for best artist at the darkies? I think it's fairly clear that the reflection is an actual reflection Well, not to me. I'd never considered that idea until just now.
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Post by Charlie on Jul 18, 2013 5:39:44 GMT -5
Hm neither. But Hermes does raise a good point.
Also, regarding the harpoon chest thing: the Harpoon was in a closet in The Hotel right? Surely Dewey (Or Frank, or Ernest, or JS, or someone else even) could have rigged the harpoon so it wasn't... deadly (don't ask me how, just go with it). And/or Dewey could be wearing the A-verse equivalent of a bullet-proof jacket. Harpoon-proof jacket anyone?
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Post by Kit's tits kick ticks on Jul 28, 2013 14:04:32 GMT -5
I've heard TBL starts tomorrow I have summer holidays now, so I have some "brain on"-time left, and I will try to join in again. So, even if I don't really make any comments, and maybe even don't understand all of yours because I (don't kick me out of the forum or something ) haven't read any of the books more than one and a half times, I'm here and I'm reading.
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Post by Isadora Is a Door on Jul 29, 2013 5:19:57 GMT -5
--The Beatrice Letters-- Of course, there is the infamous second Beatrice hidden in the silhouette. Anka did not know of this until about a week ago. This is a lovely looking book, although that hasn’t stopped it from being left on my bedroom floor for a long while (shout out to bee) Did anyone else pop out the letters? I know I did, and so did anka, but I think we are probably in the minority. I will come to stuff such as anagrams, and the poster, at the end This may be of intrest/use to us asoue.proboards.com/thread/30623/beatrice-letters-chart-antenora-- LS to BB # 1 -- It interesting the stamp never seems to appear in the same place on the page, although in the same general area. Edit : Is that the most boring comment ever? This is a red card on white background, compared to BB to LS # 1 which is the reverse. Oh, isn’t lemony just adorable here? He seems like quite the genetleman. Ah romance…. I feel they messed up by having the punch out letter E before the coded E. If it was the other way round it would be somewhat more deceptive. --BB to LS # 1-- The journey of the letter recalls several places in the main series ; Mountains (TSS), cafeterias (TAA), trunks of automobiles (TCC, TPP), lon-distance swimmers (Tgg, TPP) Lemony seems to have settled down maybe a bit more to have had an office. Obvious question of the day : Is emse alive? Okay…I’ve only just realised ‘my silence knot’ is an anagram of lemony Snicket. Lemonys life seems rather sad at this point. Although I seem to be drawn towards sad and lonely figures, as they interest me greatly. Whenever I see a stranger looking sad, I always want to know why, but then I don’t want to disturb their sadness. He story Beatrice asks lemony to tell….I think Beatrice’s book on the island would be the thin that could inspire intrest in this story…but then the Baudelaires do not recognise lemonys name in chapter 14, so that couldn’t work. Who did she encounter to make her want to ask this? Also, I would assume the story somehow involves the older Beatrice. Nd in asking this, I believe this might make lemony think this Beatrice was an imposter. More on this later. How is Beatrice separated from the Baudelaires? In my fic, of course, they are already separated whilst Beatrice is still young, but I find it hard to think the Baudelaires would not try and find her. LS to BB # 2 Did Beatrice not take code class? “The only other student I know in this class is O…”- So not only were lemony and olaf classmates, but they were presumably friends before as he ‘knows’ him. Oh, and of course, he know his sister somewhat. Is hidin in automobiles a VFD pastime? BB to LS # 2 Febuary 28th - this is, of course, Daniel handlers birthday “I can see an empty lot in which a few unusual plants have sprouted. It takes years for the land to recuperate from a fire, but even in the darkest of ashes eventually something can grow.” - I can see two interpretations of this passage. The obvious oen is that this is the ruins of the Baudelaire mansion, but another is that this is to do with the royal gardens, simply because of the flower refrnece. Lemonys map - a map of his research, plus various places he needs to o to interview people (the dates and times could be the times he has organised to interview the people?) I see no problem with this ‘I have heard rumors of your research…and oe ro two pieces of constructive criticim’ both of these comments indicate to me that lemony has finished his research at this point, or is at least nearly finished. By that I mean he has completed book13 somewhat, and the piece of critism would be on the lack of a fourteenth chapter? It is interesting this is the first time Beatrice has seen the city…
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Post by Hermes on Aug 2, 2013 15:12:53 GMT -5
Sorry, I didn't notice this had been updated. Unfortunately my copy of TBL has mysteriously disappeared, so my comments may not be very well-informed. Did anyone else pop out the letters? I know I did, and so did anka, but I think we are probably in the minority. I will come to stuff such as anagrams, and the poster, at the end I knew it was what we were meant to do, but I was afraid it would damage the book. This is indeed rather puzzling. The Baudelaires certainly knew, from Ishmael, that their mother had known Kit's brother, but had not heard the name 'Lemony'. It may seem unlikely that Beatrice would have recorded the whole story but not mentioned his name. It's possible, therefore, that Beatrice had heard the story from some other source. Alternatively it may be that she isn't actually thinking of this story, although what she says reminds Lemony of it - Ishmael told a quite different story which also began in a classroom. It's worth noticing that the first letter doesn't make it clear that B is a child (though I think it does refer to her bedtime?) or what her relation to the Baudelaires is. So L. might have found it very confusing. Presumably they became separated when the boat sank. It's not obvious, of course, that the Baudelaires are alive (though, as I'm sure you know, there's a clue coming up that at least one of them is) - and though they may have wanted to search for B, it's very unclear how they would look for her. Perhaps at a different time. As to where he is up to in the writing; I don't think he has got that far. His trip to the hills, later in the book, seems to fit fairly well his description of where he is when writing The End. Right now he might be writing TCC or TPP - since he is back in the city, not on the run as in earlier books. As to B's criticisms - I think they go further than the lack of a chapter. There are later lines which suggest that L has got some things wrong. (This is an ongoing battle between me and Dante, with me saying L is an unreliable narrator and Dante saying he isn't. DH has now actually said he is an unreliable narrator, but one can still argue about how unreliable.)
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Post by Dante on Aug 4, 2013 4:47:34 GMT -5
Just to note, I pressed out the letters in one of my copies of TBL, but not the other. If I only had one copy of the book, I'd probably still have pressed them out. I think it "completes" the book, in a way, to do so - to have the visible holes in the interstitial pages, and the pressed-out letters stored in the "Letters" folder. Although I think I'd have preferred it if they'd made it how Handler probably intended, with no press-out letters, and you had to deduce the anagram from the letters hidden in each letter.
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Post by Kit's tits kick ticks on Aug 5, 2013 13:23:12 GMT -5
Th letters are clearly there to be pressed out, so I don't understand why anyone shouldn't?
I somehow think (or wish) Beatrice is older than Lemony, and somehow in the first letter it seems very possible. I know age of people and timeline stuff is mostly speculation, but I felt like I want to say that.
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Post by Isadora Is a Door on Aug 6, 2013 9:47:11 GMT -5
Anka, i aree with the how old thin
LS to BB # 3
“assistant obituary spell-checker” - Well, that’s pretty low down in the rand scheme of thins.
How does lemony know ike? They must be Really good friends for him to o around dishing out creepy paperweights.
So… Lemony suddenly oes from being assistant obituary spell checker to dramatic critic? Interesting hierarchy
Why does R becoming the new duchess mean lemony and Beatrice need to be more careful?
BB to LS #3
Who was lemony hoping to meet?
Wallpaper in a cave?
I can see why the K was left… I think its was supposed to be kit, maybe a clue for Beatrice as to the identity of her mother?
Where is lemony for it to have take a year for her to follow him?
Sunny on the radio is a bit of a problem if they were separated while Beatrice was still young. Speaking of which, at the end of this letter Beatrice says lemony can contact her any time day or night, but doesn’t says anything about her bedtime, which seems to em to mean she is much older than before
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Post by Hermes on Aug 6, 2013 11:03:43 GMT -5
I'm not sure 'assistant obituary spell-checker' is actually his job title - he may just be complaining that he has to do menial things like that. I guess he is a sub-editor or the like.
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Post by bandit on Aug 6, 2013 13:55:09 GMT -5
I think it "completes" the book, in a way, to do so - to have the visible holes in the interstitial pages, and the pressed-out letters stored in the "Letters" folder. You know, I never realized that was what the "Letters" folder was for until now. I had always thought that it only meant the actual letters, and there were two to accommodate the posters.
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Post by Isadora Is a Door on Aug 15, 2013 15:17:49 GMT -5
LS to BB # 4
The letter being mistakenly delivered to r, means of course, that lemony needs to trai his bats better…. Did Beatrice take up baticerrin first, ad then lemony attempted to follow suite by impressing her?
There is a ring on the letter, which leads me to believe the R this letter was set to was the villainous from TUA
To call L o, or o l, - I suppose olivia / lulu?
BB to LS # 4
The same teacher lemony had… he is now sad and unaware, whereas he was tedious before.
Lemomy seems to be older than when he was writing the series, as indicated by his wheezing… he was clearly trying to shake Beatrice off… and doldrum drive.. Hast that been motioned before?
The three Baudelaires may be long one - are they dead? I think they certainly aren’t… find-able anymore.
Notes on the rest of the book tomorrow, The End starts next week!
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Post by Isadora Is a Door on Aug 18, 2013 16:38:04 GMT -5
LS to BB # 5 Interesting how Beatrice has used carrier pigeons instead of bats - has she abandoned her career as a baticeer? Of cours,e I think this has a much deeper messae. Oh wow. The description of waiters putting chairs up ot he table and stuff is so very poiant and paints a beautiful picture… why did Beatrice have to return the ring. They would have been so happy! I suppose the question im asking is … why they broke up? So… how is olaf involved in the causes for them to not be married? And Lemony still calls him a classmate.. Are they that young? Lemony says ‘maybe one day the world will know his treachery and deceit, of his crimes and hygiene’ I feel, maybe in writing the series that as well telli the story of the Baudelaires he was also letting people know Olaf is a bad person, maybe as a from of revenge for what he did to cause the break up? Who is the co-star… and why beware? I think Esme. “After reading your book, I understand why you cannot live with me. I hope, after reading the answers below, you understand why I cannot live without you.” - So he understands the reasons… I think that’s maybe why he’s never bitter about Beatrice marrying somebody else…. I don’t remember much if its ever said if the Baudelaires look like there parents (Harry potter has tainted that “you look so like your father Harry, but you have your mothers eyes”) but I would be interested how much of a resemblance they would bear to Bertrand… and how lemony would react to that. So, I will attempt to come with what I believe the questions to be 1. Are you guilty? 2. Do you remember the first time we met? 3. No idea 4. Do you remember the poem contained in the programme to My Silence Knot? 5. How many children do you think people should have? 6. What is a brae-man? 7. What is a baticeer? 8. What is an anagram? 9. How long will you love me? The refernce to napkins echoes ?1 incredibly well - I thik this intentional. “I will love you with no regard to the outrage of certain parents or the boredom of certain friends.” - given what se saw of lemony’s “parents”, can we now assume these to be Beatrice’s’? Lemony as a cheerleader 10. No idea. 11. How many siblings are there in your family? 12. What can be coded? 13. Wha is you cannot awnser my questions? BB to LS # 5 Beatrice is on the fourteenth floor, which is kind of cool… is this the first time 14 is mentioned in the series… this certainly hints towards a fourteenth chapter/book, and, of course the fourteenth chapter is where we learn who Beatrice really is How did Beatrice save the lives of the Baudelaires?? How did the Baudelaires lead Beatrice to find the secretarial school… which is, of course, not really a secretarial school… but how did she find it? Its interesting, and somehow hopeful, that VFD still exists… I somehow feel it may even be somehow… stronger than before. But that just my interpretation / Wishful thinking LS to BB # 6 toto.lib.unca.edu/findingaids/mss/biltmore_industries/seely_women/hawley/jpegs/hawley019mod.jpgSo… this letter confirms who Beatrice is really… I’m suspired I haven mentioned this before, but I had not read TBL until around 2008, maybe even later, whereas I read the end pretty much on the day of publication. Another reference to cut wires How has lemony learned of Beatrice being pregnant? Lmeonys prediction, especially about violet is quite accurate, can he see the future? J Is this really the last time lemony a Beatrice contact one another? What is the message lemony was oin to deliver? clearly it cant have been an imminent danger, because Beatrice continued to be alive for 14 more years after this BB To LS # 6 The card isn’t ripped in half, so we can assume Beatrice and lemony finally did meet.. Which then leads him to write chapter 14. But more on that when we reach that particular point The Beatrice letter - what is the point of this??? LETTER TO THE EDITOR This take space ‘today’ - which sets it very much in eh future.. In fact this whole letter fits that… lemony had clearly aged by the time Beatrice the second began to try and contact him… perhaps in his late 40s / early 50s…. Here is a kind of map in my min 0-10 - Childhood recruitment into vfd 11-20 - ATWQ, Mets Beatrice, becomes official volunteer 21-30 - The events with the first beatrice in TBL, Ends with him faking his won death and leaving the country, returns and Beatrice is pennant aged 26-28 31-40 - unsure…. Beatrice dies when lemony is around a9e 40 41-50 - Researches ASOUE… young Beatrice contacts him when he is around 45 years old, maybe more 51-60 - the events of BB to LS # 6 take place with lemony aged something around 55, TBL ends mainly here. Writes chapter fourteen 61-70 - the ‘to my kidne ditor’ letter take palce around aed 65, maybe more. I like to think lemony died / will die peacefully. I think the poster solves the anagram for you, really!
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Post by Hermes on Aug 18, 2013 17:14:24 GMT -5
You've given us a lot to think about, Mister M, and it will take me a while to think of my response to all of it, but just a couple of comments on the first bit:
It was established as early as TAA, I think - the first book to mention the letter, anyway - that it was brought by carrier pigeons, so that's a fact he has to work with, even if later developments in the story make it problematic.
I like the idea of Esme as the co-star, and it would certainly fit their status - not a known enemy, but not trusted - but I'm afraid it looks to me as if the co-star has to be a man. L says that B might marry the co-star, and then after a couple more suggestions goes on to say 'or R, though I'm afraid it will be quite some time before two women are allowed to marry'. So I think the people mentioned before this have to be male.
I think 'classmate' need only mean that they were in the same class.
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Post by Hermes on Aug 20, 2013 10:41:07 GMT -5
Continuing: The parallel between Lemony and Snape is striking, but you are right that Lemony is different in not being bitter. This is one of his most admirable traits. Of course, Bertrand never removed Lemony's trousers. I don't quite understand your question 13 - could you repost it without typos? How did Beatrice save the lives of the Baudelaires? - I don't have my copy to hand, but I'd always supposed it was just by giving them something to live for so that they didn't give up in despair. As to the school - here you touch on an ongoing dispute between me and other eminent Snicketologists. I think that when B says that the Baudelaires gave her accounts of their adventures which sometimes differ wildly from L's own, this points to actual inaccuracies in the storyline and events he has not covered: in which case they may have been to this school, or met someone from there. However, a distinguished colleague of mine holds that it refers only to events which Lemony has recounted, while the Baudelaires left them out, something we are told they did in TE (perhaps relating to Quigley and Fiona, or to morally dubious deeds by the Baudelaires). How does L know B is pregnant? Presumably there are still some people in VFD who are in touch with both of them. Is this the last time L and B contacted one another? I think yes, except for the masked ball, which I would put just before her death. On that occasion L tried to give her the message he had been waiting to give here 'for fifteen long and lonely years' - I take it that period starts with the telegram. (And not with the breakup, thus blocking a certain speculation...) Not sure what you mean by 'the Beatrice letter'. I'll comment on your timeline later. PEOPLE, POST MORE.
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Post by Isadora Is a Door on Aug 21, 2013 5:11:02 GMT -5
Oh, apologies, my laptop is slowly getting worse and worse. 13. What if you cannot awnser my questions? Do you mean actual missing adventures during the series itself, or after? Im not sure which you are reffering to ARHH Stupid auto-correct. I simply meant THE BEATRICE ETTER, as in, markin out the LS.
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