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Post by Charles Vane on Sept 19, 2013 16:53:18 GMT -5
ok bee and i keep saying stuff along the lines of how serious this is and i'll use the latest horrible example i heard. somewhere in the US a cop raped a woman and there was no question that he was guilty. so this guy abused his power to take advantage of a woman he was supposed to be helping and the judge gave him community service because, for real, "he suffered enough" because he had to go through the trail and his wife left him and took the kids. (i may be mixing up stories but im also pretty sure the judge made a point to give the woman some ~helpful~ advice so this would not happen again, which hello if you cant trust the cops who can you trust but whatever)
its super easy to look at this and be outraged and a lot of people talked about this story and how unfair it was blah blah blah but the thing is this happens all the damn time. from an outside perspective people can get that its wrong but when you live your everyday life its really easy to do stuff like laugh at rape jokes and judge women who were assaulted and make excuses for the criminal. and while the jokes are a small part of rape culture, they work to establish the preconceived notions people have about rape, are not funny, and do not help at all. the culture has to be changed and people have to become more educated before stories like this stop appearing.
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Post by Poe's Coats Host Toast on Sept 19, 2013 17:03:32 GMT -5
my computer is being such a freaking jackass, i know you said something else terry craig but i'm going to try to successfully post this first. hi, nice to meet you, im pandora, i have never tried to be any of those adjectives you mention because i always avoid serious topics on 667. i wasn't trying to make mr m seem bad, i dont think he did it maliciously and i didnt say anything about him because bee said what i would have said. i dont fault him for what he said at all because the harmful ways we view consent and how its okay to talk about rape are prevalent and this is something it's hard to be aware of unless you're trying. so the only reason i am "so aware" is because i care about this issue and as i see it the only way to make others "so aware" is to point stuff out and have discussions. it might seem like bee and i are trying to attack to you because thats how we roll but, while anyone can suffer from rape culture, this is considered more of a feminist issue and thats why im guessing she feels the way she does and its why i do too. If that's the case then I misjudged you in this instance, Pandora. You made it clear that you didn't consciously attack MisterM, and didn't do so for your own benefit (like I assumed before). I wasn't even exactly involved in this until I stated my assumption and Bee took it really personal. What I was "personally offended" by was the fact that you seemed to think that someone (In this case, Nicole) calling someone out on a comment potentially perceived as endorsing rape culture was "overreaction" and "blowing things out of proportion". I know you think that it might be over the top, but trust me it really, really isn't and I took personal offence to your opinion that we were making a mountain out of a molehill as a (female) member of society. But mostly as just an ordinary member of society who believes rape is a very, very bad thing. Oh wow, no I didn't speak about this in such a large scope like you thought I was. I wasn't even talking about rape culture, which is why my comments on your "overreaction" didn't pertain to it at all, but merely to the intentions of MisterM's original comment. I don't know how you could get that from what I wrote, I would never try to underplay the gravity of rape. no one said you didnt have the right to state your opinion. i just wish you stop trying to state mine, you always presume to know what im doing or feeling and it is literally the only reason why i don't like you. i dont care whether you stick to your opinions or not but what i'd like to know is why you're sticking to your opinions. stop saying what are doing and what we should be doing and tell me your opinions so we can talk about this! you're talking way more about me, bee and mr m than the topic. we can continue talking about the post, which i do think had offensive implications even though that wasnt the intention, or talk in larger terms. Well, you forget that me just stating how I view the development of this argument IS my opinion, and needless to say, it's just an assumption, and I never presume to know what I only presume, so I'm not "trying to state" your or anyone's opinion for them. Since you explained yourself, I believe you and am dismissing my assumption of you having ever had an agenda in this. That's how a good discussion should work, I think. I was talking about you bee and misterm, because I didn't even start discussing rape culture, since it was off-topic until this thread was made. All I was doing is try to defend a harmless joke for being devoid of the implications you and bee assumed it had (by your logic you tried to state his opinion). Other than that, since this has been moved into its own topic, I can say that I do stand behind most of feminist issues, and I definitely appreciate people trying to raise awareness. I don't know what else to say. I hope you're computer stops acting up.
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Post by Charles Vane on Sept 19, 2013 17:22:07 GMT -5
All I was doing is try to defend a harmless joke for being devoid of the implications you and bee assumed it had (by your logic you tried to state his opinion). the joke doesn't have to support his opinion. a joke can have implications the creator didnt realize. im just saying if you wanna discuss this, because this happens all the time where someone tells a joke and people are like that joke is offensive/sexist/rapey whatever and the person is like thats not what i meant you silly ladies calm your pretty little heads. i dont see how its a leap to take the joke the way i did. you're dressing the person up as kit snicket so olaf will be interested in the person. unless your intention is to get your enemy laid by form of a weird hookup scenario, which you wouldnt be doing since its your worst enemy, then something else is going on. olaf will be interested in the person dressed as kit, the person dressed as kit will not be interested because this is supposed to be somewhere bad that you send your enemy, and olaf will peruse the kit dressed person. and you know, he'll be relentless and villan-y about going after the person because thats who he is. and i didnt go through a huge thought process like this when i first saw the joke, i wasn't giving it a huge amount of attention to get to this point, its just where my mind immediately went.
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Post by Rellim on Sept 19, 2013 17:22:21 GMT -5
I can see how all parties misunderstood each other to a certain extent, but for the future, Terry, it might be in the best interests of fostering constructive discussion for you to ask someone to clarify their intentions before simply stating (without any mention of "from my perspective" or "it appears that") what their intentions are. I'd be surprised if someone made a statement like that assigning you particular intentions in an argument without you taking a certain amount of offense.
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Post by BSam on Sept 19, 2013 17:25:01 GMT -5
All I was doing is try to defend a harmless joke for being devoid of the implications you and bee assumed it had oops, that nearly snuck through, if the joke wasn't harmless then what the hell happened in this thread. if people are offended by a joke, and for a good reason, i don't think you have the right to say "no, it's harmless you shouldn't be offended by it" I don't tell my black friends not to get offended by racist jokes, and we don't tell our friends who society is bringing the fear of being raped into, not to get offended by jokes implying rape.
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Post by Charles Vane on Sept 19, 2013 17:26:14 GMT -5
oh and im not trying to prolong an argument or anything, im not even thinking of this an argument but im in freaking disturbing discussion and im being serious so lets freaking discuss stuff guys.
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Post by Rellim on Sept 19, 2013 17:33:35 GMT -5
Okay so I've been watching Mad Men recently and half the show is about Don having sex with women who aren't his wife. I love Don. But when him and his wife and were getting a divorce and she was planning on getting with this guy she hadn't even slept with and he found out, he gets so pissed and calls her a worthless monkey and stuff. I also found myself feeling disgusted by her and her actions and lack of faithfulness, but then I remembered that Don's been doing much worse offenses and I'd never felt any sense of contempt toward him for that.
Then I felt bad at my own magikarp shaming and asked Betty to forgive me.
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Post by Rellim on Sept 19, 2013 17:34:40 GMT -5
magikarp? Really?
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Post by BSam on Sept 19, 2013 17:37:12 GMT -5
remember, our admin is literally a child.
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Post by penne on Sept 19, 2013 17:44:18 GMT -5
Wow uh We were listing horrible horrible things that we would do to our enemies, which I think included torture and murder. In a thread like that how can you single out a specific post? Someone could have just as well picked a post that mentioned torture in THH (not 100% sure if that post exists) and go like 'hey you can't say that because of... Guantanamo'. We know rape is awful. It's kind of the point. Of course that seriously speaking, I wouldn't wish rape to my worst enemy, yet I wouldn't wish all the other stuff I said either. Well, anyway, I do see where you're coming from and I get this is a sensitive issue and I apologize if I took it too lightly.
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Post by Poe's Coats Host Toast on Sept 19, 2013 17:45:19 GMT -5
the joke doesn't have to support his opinion. a joke can have implications the creator didnt realize. im just saying if you wanna discuss this, because this happens all the time where someone tells a joke and people are like that joke is offensive/sexist/rapey whatever and the person is like thats not what i meant you silly ladies calm your pretty little heads. I don't think it's fair to say that this was the case in MisterM's scenario however. i dont see how its a leap to take the joke the way i did. you're dressing the person up as kit snicket so olaf will be interested in the person. unless your intention is to get your enemy laid by form of a weird hookup scenario, which you wouldnt be doing since its your worst enemy, then something else is going on. olaf will be interested in the person dressed as kit, the person dressed as kit will not be interested because this is supposed to be somewhere bad that you send your enemy, and olaf will peruse the kit dressed person. and you know, he'll be relentless and villan-y about going after the person because thats who he is. and i didnt go through a huge thought process like this when i first saw the joke, i wasn't giving it a huge amount of attention to get to this point, its just where my mind immediately went. Well, I guess it's not that big of a leap to assume this, okay, but once MisterM explained that it was in fact not his intention, the argument should've been pretty much settled. I already explained how I understood the joke: I can't speak for MisterM about his intentions with the joke, but the way I perceived it was that a disgusting and evil human like Olaf would fancy your enemy. And I said how this is also pretty much the basic premise of the Looney Tunes character Pepè Le Pew, which is a children's character, so it's safe to say there's no rape involved. Maybe MisterM should've shown more input and said that this is what his joke meant for confirmation, but after he already said that rape didn't have anything to do with his joke you, bee, and apparently BSam now as well, ignore that and go/went on talking about it as if he did mean it as a rape joke, and use that as a strawman argument (seriously, BSam, come on).
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Post by BSam on Sept 19, 2013 17:48:11 GMT -5
just for the record, Pepè Le Pew is totally rapey. How many times does he need to be told 'no'?
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Post by Charles Vane on Sept 19, 2013 17:50:25 GMT -5
Wow uh We were listing horrible horrible things that we would do to our enemies, which I think included torture and murder. In a thread like that how can you single out a specific post? Someone could have just as well picked a post that mentioned torture in THH (not 100% sure if that post exists) and go like 'hey you can't say that because of... Guantanamo'. We know rape is awful. It's kind of the point. Of course that seriously speaking, I wouldn't wish rape to my worst enemy, yet I wouldn't wish all the other stuff I said either. Well, anyway, I do see where you're coming from and I get this is a sensitive issue and I apologize if I took it too lightly. because rape is viewed differently than torture and murder. they're seen as clear crimes and people understand them in a way they don't understand rape. people don't say maybe the murdered person shouldn't have dressed that way, the murdered person was asking it or express sadness for a murderer when they are sentenced to jail for their crimes because they had a bright future ahead of them aside from the murder, oh let me see if i can find that thing from the onion. the really really funnysad part is that a few years later CNN brought this satire to life. www.theonion.com/video/college-basketball-star-heroically-overcomes-tragi,19097/
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Post by Kit's tits kick ticks on Sept 19, 2013 17:50:55 GMT -5
ok bee and i keep saying stuff along the lines of how serious this is and i'll use the latest horrible example i heard. somewhere in the US a cop raped a woman and there was no question that he was guilty. so this guy abused his power to take advantage of a woman he was supposed to be helping and the judge gave him community service because, for real, "he suffered enough" because he had to go through the trail and his wife left him and took the kids. (i may be mixing up stories but im also pretty sure the judge made a point to give the woman some ~helpful~ advice so this would not happen again, which hello if you cant trust the cops who can you trust but whatever) Telling rape stories time? Only half on topic but I feel like I want to tell that: There was that guy who escaped from prison and he was there because of rape, and he was allowed to go out of the prison for the first time, with a therapist. He somehow made the therapist go to a shop with him and let him buy a knife, and then he killed her. And I thought one thing: How can they let a person who is in prison for rape leave the prison for the first time with a female therapist?
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Post by penne on Sept 19, 2013 17:56:20 GMT -5
Wow uh We were listing horrible horrible things that we would do to our enemies, which I think included torture and murder. In a thread like that how can you single out a specific post? Someone could have just as well picked a post that mentioned torture in THH (not 100% sure if that post exists) and go like 'hey you can't say that because of... Guantanamo'. We know rape is awful. It's kind of the point. Of course that seriously speaking, I wouldn't wish rape to my worst enemy, yet I wouldn't wish all the other stuff I said either. Well, anyway, I do see where you're coming from and I get this is a sensitive issue and I apologize if I took it too lightly. because rape is viewed differently than torture and murder. they're seen as clear crimes and people understand them in a way they don't understand rape. people don't say maybe the murdered person shouldn't have dressed that way, the murdered person was asking it or express sadness for a murderer when they are sentenced to jail for their crimes because they had a bright future ahead of them aside from the murder, oh let me see if i can find that thing from the onion. That's true, I get what you mean.
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