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Post by BSam on Sept 19, 2013 18:33:14 GMT -5
by the sounds of it she's just victim blaming, but she hasn't replied yet so i don't know for sure
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Post by Charles Vane on Sept 19, 2013 18:35:18 GMT -5
Another question: If a girl is super drunk and says "I want to have sex with you" to a guy who is equally super drunk and he feels the same and then they have sex and she never asks to stop... The next morning can she say he raped her? super drunk people can't give consent which is why you should never have sex if she's too gone (anyone? asher roth?). but yeah its hard to understand at what point someone is "super drunk" and yes i would say that in the scenario you gave that is rape but like, i have no idea what the right course of action is. though not asking to stop has very little to do with whether something is rape or not.
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Post by penne on Sept 19, 2013 18:41:10 GMT -5
But the guy is super drunk too. And she mentioned sex. If anyone raped anyone... didn't she rape him? I'm probably saying the dumbest stuff ever right now but it's an honest question.
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Post by penne on Sept 19, 2013 18:51:44 GMT -5
someone answer me please.
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Post by BSam on Sept 19, 2013 18:53:53 GMT -5
technically if they are equally drunk and that is drunk enough to class as rape. they raped each other.
what happens then, if either of them press charges, is anyones guess.
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Post by Charles Vane on Sept 19, 2013 18:57:32 GMT -5
But the guy is super drunk too. And she mentioned sex. If anyone raped anyone... didn't she rape him? I'm probably saying the dumbest stuff ever right now but it's an honest question. a drunk person can say a lot of things but that doesnt mean they should do them. if a super drunk person mentions sex and a sober person has sex with them then its easier to see that as rape but either way its still a person who isnt able to consent to sex having sex. as for whether the guy is raped, i think it kind of depends, like some things are definitely rape whether the person who was raped recognizes it or not but the guy could feel anything about the experience. he might regret it, he might not remember what happened, he might feel like he did what he wanted to even though he was drunk, maybe he came to the party to get super wasted and hook up, ect. i hope im saying this clearly but a situation like this has a lot of variables, how drunk were they, were they different levels of drunk, what if the girl sobered up but didn't feel like she could say anything, what if the guy sobered up and went along with it even though the girl was still super drunk.
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Post by penne on Sept 19, 2013 19:01:13 GMT -5
Hmm.
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Post by bryan on Sept 19, 2013 19:42:07 GMT -5
bryan, jezebel.com/5925186/how-to-make-a-rape-jokemy computer is being a dick so i didnt re-read but part of why the author found the rape jokes she quotes okay is because none of them made fun of the victim and all the comics seemed to be aware of what they were discussing. Oh yeah I think I've read this before I really wish there was a transcription of what Tosh said that night because the most publicized version of the events are the victim's, but there are a few from the comedy club owner www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2012/07/11/comedy-central-star-daniel-tosh-slammed-for-rape-joke/Well all accounts of the joke sound like the joke was pretty vicious. Tosh has apologized for the joke and I don't think he really has a history of rape jokes. Not saying that made what he said okay. I don't know why I'm even mentioning it anyway. But the woman in the article you posted cites what Louis CK said ("I'm not condoning rape, obviously—you should never rape anyone. Unless you have a reason, like if you want to ickle somebody and they won't let you") as being okay. I'm gonna keep just quoting the article so you don't have to open it haha. "Here's why this joke doesn't make me feel like salsa: Louis CK has spent 20 years making it very publicly clear that he is on the side of making things better. The oppressors never win at the end of his jokes. That's why it's easy to give him the benefit of the doubt that this joke is making fun of rapists—specifically the absurd and horrific sense of entitlement that accompanies taking over someone else's body like you're hungry and it's a delicious hoagie. The point is, only a potatoing psychopath would think like that, and the simplicity of the joke lays that bare. That said, Louis CK is possibly the greatest comic in the world, but that does not mean that he is always right. I think even Louis CK would tell you that. And I guarantee you he puts himself and his audience through at least this level of scrutiny on every joke. That's why the jokes are good." I interpret this as her saying "though the joke is about raping someone, it's okay because we can give Louis CK the benefit of the doubt and know that he is definitely against rape and is just mocking how ridiculous it is". Why can't we give tosh the same benefit of the doubt, and know that HE is definitely against rape too, and that he's just mocking that? Still, I think the joke was more inappropriate than Louis CK's and that tosh was right to apologize because the woman (along with many others) was clearly disgusted by what he said. Were? Was? Grammar whatever I agree with the other examples though, as they don't make the victim the joke. EDIT: I'm tryna find other versions of what people said tosh said but my Internet or google or something is bein a BUTT so I can't so I reserve my right to say "just kidding that's not how I feel at all" Another question: If a girl is super drunk and says "I want to have sex with you" to a guy who is equally super drunk and he feels the same and then they have sex and she never asks to stop... The next morning can she say he raped her? super drunk people can't give consent which is why you should never have sex if she's too gone (anyone? asher roth?). but yeah its hard to understand at what point someone is "super drunk" and yes i would say that in the scenario you gave that is rape but like, i have no idea what the right course of action is. though not asking to stop has very little to do with whether something is rape or not. Fun fact when that song came out I was 13 gross I also didn't know who hakeem olajuwon was so I thought he was saying "I keep my laju on" and that laju was a loose colloquialism for lingerie and he was playing something along the lines of strip beer pong and saying he wore lingerie and that he was so good he never got to the point where he had to take his lingerie off He keeps his laju on But rape But like can't she not give consent because she's not in a good state of mind to make the decisions she otherwise would? If so then why is the guy in the right state of mind to make the decision he made if he was equally drunk? And I just said the "she didn't ask to stop" thing because if in this imaginary situation she did ask to stop and he didn't, that IS clearly rape.
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Post by bryan on Sept 19, 2013 19:51:19 GMT -5
But the guy is super drunk too. And she mentioned sex. If anyone raped anyone... didn't she rape him? I'm probably saying the dumbest stuff ever right now but it's an honest question. a drunk person can say a lot of things but that doesnt mean they should do them. if a super drunk person mentions sex and a sober person has sex with them then its easier to see that as rape but either way its still a person who isnt able to consent to sex having sex. as for whether the guy is raped, i think it kind of depends, like some things are definitely rape whether the person who was raped recognizes it or not but the guy could feel anything about the experience. he might regret it, he might not remember what happened, he might feel like he did what he wanted to even though he was drunk, maybe he came to the party to get super wasted and hook up, ect. i hope im saying this clearly but a situation like this has a lot of variables, how drunk were they, were they different levels of drunk, what if the girl sobered up but didn't feel like she could say anything, what if the guy sobered up and went along with it even though the girl was still super drunk. Oh okay yeah I think the variables matter a whole lot I just meant like... I don't think it would be ok for a girl who regretted hooking up with someone to say he raped her if they were both equally unable to make rational decisions due to alcohol the ENTIRE time they had sex. It just seems to underplay rape to me. Like I know the movie scene where a guy in a bush grabs the jogging woman and forces her to have sex with him at knifepoint while she cries and pleads for it to stop isn't the ONLY kind of rape... I get that it's more complicated then that... But I dunnnnno
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Post by Charles Vane on Sept 19, 2013 22:21:06 GMT -5
bryan, jezebel.com/5925186/how-to-make-a-rape-jokemy computer is being a dick so i didnt re-read but part of why the author found the rape jokes she quotes okay is because none of them made fun of the victim and all the comics seemed to be aware of what they were discussing. Oh yeah I think I've read this before I really wish there was a transcription of what Tosh said that night because the most publicized version of the events are the victim's, but there are a few from the comedy club owner www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2012/07/11/comedy-central-star-daniel-tosh-slammed-for-rape-joke/Well all accounts of the joke sound like the joke was pretty vicious. Tosh has apologized for the joke and I don't think he really has a history of rape jokes. Not saying that made what he said okay. I don't know why I'm even mentioning it anyway. But the woman in the article you posted cites what Louis CK said ("I'm not condoning rape, obviously—you should never rape anyone. Unless you have a reason, like if you want to ickle somebody and they won't let you") as being okay. I'm gonna keep just quoting the article so you don't have to open it haha. "Here's why this joke doesn't make me feel like salsa: Louis CK has spent 20 years making it very publicly clear that he is on the side of making things better. The oppressors never win at the end of his jokes. That's why it's easy to give him the benefit of the doubt that this joke is making fun of rapists—specifically the absurd and horrific sense of entitlement that accompanies taking over someone else's body like you're hungry and it's a delicious hoagie. The point is, only a potatoing psychopath would think like that, and the simplicity of the joke lays that bare. That said, Louis CK is possibly the greatest comic in the world, but that does not mean that he is always right. I think even Louis CK would tell you that. And I guarantee you he puts himself and his audience through at least this level of scrutiny on every joke. That's why the jokes are good." I interpret this as her saying "though the joke is about raping someone, it's okay because we can give Louis CK the benefit of the doubt and know that he is definitely against rape and is just mocking how ridiculous it is". Why can't we give tosh the same benefit of the doubt, and know that HE is definitely against rape too, and that he's just mocking that? Still, I think the joke was more inappropriate than Louis CK's and that tosh was right to apologize because the woman (along with many others) was clearly disgusted by what he said. Were? Was? Grammar whatever I agree with the other examples though, as they don't make the victim the joke. EDIT: I'm tryna find other versions of what people said tosh said but my Internet or google or something is bein a BUTT so I can't so I reserve my right to say "just kidding that's not how I feel at all" yeah i dont remember all the details anymore but tosh's joke is already different than louie's because he was saying it with a specific woman from the audience in mind. and all i really know about tosh is that he makes a bunch of tasteless jokes on some comedy central show. ive seen louie have really good things to say about white privilege, ladies, gays as well as my favorite thing ever about being kind in general. its kind of like she says, i just trust him. also either hes making a sarcastic quip or just stating during his comedy that its okay to rape people. which seems like a weird choice to me but im not a comedian. though i can see how someone with no experience of him would think that its a bad joke to make. i have more to say, i always do, but i cant right now things just got real.
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Post by Poe's Coats Host Toast on Sept 20, 2013 0:05:25 GMT -5
hey what about arrested development's analrapist?
like, I find that sh#t funny, but by the way you all argue you seem like you should be against it, even though I know it's your fave show and whatnot.
just curious.
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Post by Charles Vane on Sept 20, 2013 0:24:38 GMT -5
that's a joke about tobias being oblivious.
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Post by Charles Vane on Sept 20, 2013 0:33:22 GMT -5
but what i didn't like about the new ad series was whichever one of them it was sleeping with lucille while she thought it was the other one. i think he still would have had a chance if he was honest about who he was anyway. and i forget what exactly bugged me but george michael scheming to get maeby closer and using lindsey as a prostitute without her knowledge were both kinda gross.
not that i get what your point is really. tv adds to rape culture a ton. lots of things detract from my enjoyment of a show, teen wolf has ten million problems with it how it handles women but they also get stuff right. so i just complain about the bad stuff and otherwise like the rest of the show for what it is.
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Post by Poe's Coats Host Toast on Sept 20, 2013 0:58:36 GMT -5
I'm aware of that, but I wasn't sure how you or some other 667ers would regard a joke like that in a TV show you like. Interesting.
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Post by Charles Vane on Sept 20, 2013 1:34:14 GMT -5
i mean just saying the word rape isn't offensive. they weren't talking about rape at all, there was no victim, it was just tobias being tobias.
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