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Post by ryantrimble457 on Mar 7, 2018 13:02:55 GMT -5
I figured it'd be best to group these by book. Here, discuss eps 5 & 6. It will be assumed you have seen episodes 1-4, as well. Feel free to discuss your knowledge what happens beyond these eps (as far as the TV show and the book series are concerned), but please put that in a spoiler tag.
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Post by ironic impostor on Mar 30, 2018 7:08:23 GMT -5
OLIVIA AND JACQUES READING THE VFD INDUCTEE POEM IN EPISODE 5 BROKE ME! BROKE! ME! I HAD TO WATCH THE SCENE LIKE FIVE TIMES BEFORE I COULD CONTINUE ON WITHOUT CRYING!
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Post by Violent BUN Fortuna on Mar 30, 2018 7:37:05 GMT -5
Just watched episode 5 (officially half way through now!!) and it was incredible.
Firstly -- the V.F.D. induction poem. That was ... Well, let's just say I'm thrilled with how much material their including from the books, including from TUA. I'm so happy.
The ending of this episode is chilling and I'm so sad for Lemony and Jacques (and Kit, of course, though obviously she's not here yet).
Other things of note: Dupin & Luciana are just brilliant. They're clearly having so much fun with these roles.
Pony Party (again!).
I LOVE THE COSTUMES. Violet's blue dress and Klaus's waistcoat are so nice.
It was soooo good to see Violet working on Hector's self-sustaining hot air mobile home.
Also the design of V.F.D. as a town is just right.
Olaf & Jacques' interactions were perfect, I felt. I really like that we're getting more hints of Olaf's past and of how he's also stuck in his own cycle of villainy.
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Post by Violent BUN Fortuna on Mar 30, 2018 9:02:29 GMT -5
Episode six was probably (I think) the most emotional so far. Jacques' death, the separation of the Quagmires & Baudelaires, Klaus's dismal birthday ... it was really touching.
I can't wait to watch these episodes again because there's just so much to enjoy in each one.
Esmé's obsession with the Sugar Bowl is inspiring. Chase your dreams, Esme. (I mean, don't really. Because that would be bad. But still, it's spot on.)
Mr. Poe saying goodbye in the gaol cell was quite chilling. It was nice of him to think of looking after the crow at the end, though. Oh, I also love the donkey.
I'm very glad that they didn't push the Duncan/Violet thing too far and that they made it come much more from Duncan, because to me they always seemed just like really close friends (plus I love Violet & Quigley, sooo ... ) so I really didn't want them to go overboard with that. Or with the Isadora/Klaus thing.
Fernald's pride in Sunny is really entertaining.
The V.F.D. symbol in the clouds!!! And the Baudelaires reading the V.F.D. poem!!
I'm sure I had more to say, but right now I just want to get on to THH!
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Post by Violent BUN Fortuna on Mar 30, 2018 9:06:11 GMT -5
Oh also I really love how many direct quotes from the books are included. This is great.
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Post by Violent BUN Fortuna on Mar 30, 2018 9:07:45 GMT -5
OH and Larry mentioning his mothers was awesome.
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Post by Linda Rhaldeen on Mar 31, 2018 1:39:54 GMT -5
Just finished episode 5 and I'm going to bed now and will watch the rest tomorrow (today? Since it's after midnight). Jacques' death was a surprisingly emotional moment for me; in the books we didn't really know him before he died, but with his expanded role I was really starting to love him and I found myself hoping that somehow he would survive even though I knew he doesn't. The VFD induction poem was also emotional for me, for a different reason. And I loved that Sunny's outfit was pretty much Jessie the Yodeling Cowgirl; so cute. PS I know the chance of this being true are probably slim, but did anyone interpret the Dante reference as a shoutout to our Dante?
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Post by mortinson51 on Mar 31, 2018 4:08:41 GMT -5
Ok I have a lot to say. So I'm sorry if this comes off too rambly.
I really hated that they changed that the Village didn't burn people at the stake originally. I think it undermines so much of the story. For one thing it explains Hector's fears. It makes sense why he is scared. I would be but now he is just a wimp. I have lost all respect for him as a character. He went from a good person with a rational fear who was redeemable to someone I now absolutely hate.
I think the line with Jacqueline asking what they really want makes no sense now. Why do they have a love for burning people so much now. I'm normally not one who complains about adaption changes.
So far in the show I think they have done a great job with the changes and most of them work. But I found I really hated this one and feels like they weaken what could have been a good episode.
Also Larry and Jacquline didn't have to be in this episode. They felt unnecessary to me. Now that they are constantly failing so easily it's starting to make me hate them. Ok enough of what I hated. Sorry about that people.
I really liked the addition of Mr. Poe I think it really worked for me. Sure now he is involved in the Baudelaire's downfall but I kind of liked it. It's dark but it's good.
Nathan Fillon killed it as Jacques. I loved him. I really hoped he didn't have to die. It honestly made me really sad.
Esme and Olaf are wonderful together. They are so perfect. I'm loving how they are handling the sugar bowl. It's a lot more in the forefront then it was in the books. But I love that esme just needs it like Olaf needs the fortune.
I'll be interested to see how I like TVV episodes on my rewatch. See if I like them more after I cool off from the "Burning" change. Sorry for the rant. I love and hated these at the same time. Too many emotions for me.
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Post by gliquey on Mar 31, 2018 9:27:59 GMT -5
This was quite a mixed bag for me. A lot of characters aren't really putting up a proper fight - Jacques when he is knocked unconscious in the saloon; the villagers who step aside so Olaf and Esme can escape; Larry and Jacquelyn being ineffective for the umpteenth time. I think this is a result of two things: badly thought out plot changes, and too many volunteers introduced too early. I never really got on board with Jacquelyn, and am still waiting for her to add something to the series. Larry's addition was nicer from the perspective of a hardcore book fan, but I don't really like his character and he is also not adding much. On the other hand, the merging of Olivia with the TAA librarian role is excellent and I think the actor for her is brilliant, and she has added something to the story. I think I can now guess where her storyline is heading and I am looking forwards to TCC with even more anticipation now. The most interesting scene in TVV is that of the Quagmires escaping and the Baudelaires left behind - in the books, it is frantic and emotional. Here, I have very conflicted feelings about the scene. Visually, it is beautiful, with the linked car/balloon ladders, the mobile home itself and the setting sun behind them. There is a good sense of urgency and frustration from the Quagmires and the Baudelaires. However, this is all interposed with silly little jokes like the blood / cranberry juice switch, and the dialogue of the Council. That takes away some of the emotion for me. I think it's so close to being perfect - it even has the crow being shot by Esme - but these tiny details sort of ruin the scene for me. I will say, however, that the very closing moments with Snicket narrating from Nevermore Tree are excellent, though even here I want just a touch more sadness from him about his brother's death. Larry's reference to "my mothers" is the second mention of a lesbian couple this series. While I'm perfectly fine with lines like this being dropped casually into dialogue, I don't think we should mistake it for serious LGBT representation in media. If the show wants to do something significant in this area, it should show us a gay couple somewhere onscreen. Sir and Charles is a start and I'm aware that there are serious limitations in children's media insofar as a lot of (homophobic) parents will not let their children watch anything that features openly LGBT characters, so I do understand there are mitigating circumstances, and the show is still doing something. Good moments: - Mr. Poe being opposed to non-nuclear families fits with his personality quite well, as does his penchant for bureaucracy.
- The Henchperson of Indeterminate Gender's response to "She's [Esme is] very attractive" with "I admire her for her capabilities" is hilarious.
- Olaf's "It [TAA] wasn't that long ago. It was actually just a few—" is good temporal confusion humour.
- Detective Dupin singing "Look Away" is brilliant, especially the scatting.
- "What makes the cell deluxe?" / "It comes with a noose."
Bad moments: - "DQ+VB" is too much, and if anything the coupling that should be emphasised is "IQ+KB", otherwise things will be very weird when Quigley gets here.
- "Little racy for a family show" is not a nod to the fourth wall. It's overtly addressing the audience. What is Jacques referring to with "family show" in the in-universe context?
- Klaus misquotes "Only you can know our fear" (instead of "end") when reading out the couplets in the cell.
Stray notes: - I disagree with Lemony on both counts: apples are as delicious as cookies, and television is an important cultural art form.
- Olivia's sugar bowl offer mirrors that of the Baudelaires' in TSS. I think TSS' plot is going to be reworked quite a bit.
I really hated that they changed that the Village didn't burn people at the stake originally. I think it undermines so much of the story. For one thing it explains Hector's fears. It makes sense why he is scared. I would be but now he is just a wimp. I have lost all respect for him as a character. He went from a good person with a rational fear who was redeemable to someone I now absolutely hate. I completely agree with this. I think his fainting is also way overboard, and he gets so little screentime I couldn't empathise at all with him. The "reasonable fine" thing is also just ridiculous in and of itself, and a lot of the mob/council scenes have almost no logic behind them. Hector speaking up in defence of the Baudelaires - a change from the books, I believe - should have been a defining moment for his character, and had some effect on the scene, but the Council just reply with some nonsense and ignore him. Hector's mother suddenly being brought into his backstory is also absurd with this "reasonable fine" punishment and is both a disappointing anticlimax and another slam against his character. PS I know the chance of this being true are probably slim, but did anyone interpret the Dante reference as a shoutout to our Dante ? If only. The Netflix series has brought in quite a few literary references that aren't in the books so I think it's a coincidence. But what the hell, let's apply death of the author and interpret it as a reference to Dante.
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Post by Violent BUN Fortuna on Mar 31, 2018 9:55:42 GMT -5
I totally agree that the DQ+VB thing was too much and weird -- just because nothing like that ever happened in the books so it was weird to play around with their relationship, and because Violet's very obvious attachment to Quigley may now seem a bit strange after this. However, I think the saving grace of the DQ+VB thing was that it was all Duncan's idea: he was even awkward about the idea of Violet having seen it, so clearly it wasn't meant to indicate that they were together or anything. But yeah, I wish they hadn't added that in. I find it a bit odd how they were kind of trying to pair them up quite so much, because obviously we'll get the romantic themes in season 3, so ... why bother?
I also noticed Klaus misquoting the couplet, which I thought was odd considering it was right there in front of him.
I also agree that they should have really emphasised how terrifying the Council of Elders was, and the punishment of burning at the stake should have already been hanging over Hector's head. I suppose the fact that the whole village so readily agreed to the idea of burning at the stake perhaps indicates that the mindset of the village is so easily swayed towards hatred that Hector's fear is reasonable, but yes -- it was much better in the book and Hector was more understandable (I mean, as much as I love the show -- the books are always best).
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Post by Violent BUN Fortuna on Mar 31, 2018 9:58:34 GMT -5
Oh, also, something I always loved from the book was Violet realising that they couldn't climb the rope ladder because she remembered her hair unraveling from its braids when she was younger. I always thought it was such a horrible, heart-rending realisation, and I wish they had included it.
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lanayru
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Post by lanayru on Mar 31, 2018 10:58:27 GMT -5
I finished TVV Part One, so now I’m halfway through the season! My impressions: -Honestly, when I was watching both parts of TAA, there was just something about the episodes that weren’t exactly clicking with me. It could have been that I was tired when I watched them, or I had to get used to the tone and the flow of the show again, but something just felt a bit off to me. Watching TEE fixed that a lot, though, and at this point it really does feel like the books coming to life, just like the first season did. -Something that struck me right from the beginning of the the episode was how frustrated and fed up the Baudelaires were, which I really appreciate. Last set of episodes, they seemed very desperate, but now they’re just very understandably angry. -“One who writes poetry and one who cries all the time” nooooooo -They’re still pushing Violet/Duncan huh. Not a fan. I’m not upset it’s just kind of weird and I wonder why exactly they decided to. -Man, they did a great job at misdirection with making it seem like Jacques had Olaf when, in reality, well... it’s times like these I want to know how people who haven’t read the books would react. -I can’t believe the reviews were saying that these episodes were boring. Of course, it seems like I’ve always liked TVV more than the majority of people. -I like how surreal the town looks -I’m really curious about what they’re doing with Olivia. They seem to be pushing her as brave and noble, so I’m wondering if she’ll go through a lot of character development (maybe as a result of the murder?) or if they’re going to dramatically change her plot and characterization in future episodes. Hmmmm.
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lanayru
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Post by lanayru on Mar 31, 2018 12:42:03 GMT -5
Larry's reference to "my mothers" is the second mention of a lesbian couple this series. While I'm perfectly fine with lines like this being dropped casually into dialogue, I don't think we should mistake it for serious LGBT representation in media. If the show wants to do something significant in this area, it should show us a gay couple somewhere onscreen. Sir and Charles is a start and I'm aware that there are serious limitations in children's media insofar as a lot of (homophobic) parents will not let their children watch anything that features openly LGBT characters, so I do understand there are mitigating circumstances, and the show is still doing something. Yeah, I agree with this. As a lesbian, it does make me really happy that an adaptation of my favorite childhood book series added lines like that and the one in TAA, but I don’t think it need to be praised because at this point it’s not doing anything groundbreaking. I definitely give children’s media more leeway because LGBT characters in that is still a relatively new thing, but when you have what other kids shows are doing more and more recently wrt that and the fact that it’s a Netflix production, what they’ve done so far is very bare minimum in terms of representation imo. It’s nice, but very... safe and easily dismissed. ANYWAYS, I liked this episode. It think it’s the one in the second season that’s gripped me the most so far. I agree with what other people have said that Larry and Jacqueline feel very unnecessary. Maybe they have something planned for them later or something, but at this point I just don’t get what they add, besides maybe some jokes. Wow, they kind of made Mr. Poe straight up despicable, huh? He’s not even just unhelpful anymore. I could really feel that betrayal when he literally left the children to die. I also agree with what others have said about the changes making Hector more unlikable. I’ve been waiting for that birthday scene! Awww, Klaus I thought Louis did a good job with that. I personally found that scene where they’re getting into the self-sustaining hot air mobile home pretty tense. The village chasing children and wanting to burn them on the stake was a lot more distressing to see on screen than reading, for me.
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Post by Violent BUN Fortuna on Mar 31, 2018 13:56:40 GMT -5
I just want to note that when I said the mention of Larry's mothers was awesome, I wasn't saying they had gone above and beyond or anything -- it was just nice. Not groundbreaking, but good and nice nonetheless. I also love VV - I'm amazed some people thought it was boring! I don't think Jacquelyn added much to this season, but I really liked Larry's part. I'm not saying that I think it's an improvement on the books, because I absolutely don't, but I think as an adaptation for the screen, it works well to have other members of V.F.D. lurking about whom you can actually see, because it gives a sense of the organisation and its wider presence in the world. In the books, you get that sense from the things Lemony describes and just from the writing style and little hints sand clues dropped around the place, and from the things the Baudelaires encounter -- and it works so well! But for a visual medium, I think including new characters/expanding on old ones is a good way of adapting the sense of mystery and intrigue surrounding V.F.D. which the books capture so well in words alone ...
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lanayru
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Post by lanayru on Mar 31, 2018 14:15:31 GMT -5
Oh yeah, it definitely was nice! Like I said, I’ve loved asoue since I was a kid, so the adaptation having lines like that does make me very happy, especially since they definitely didn’t have to do that.
Yeah, I do agree that it’s cool seeing active members of VFD and getting more of a sense of the organization through their interactions. I guess I just wished they contributed more to the plot. I feel like Larry and Jacqueline could have been entirely removed from TVV without much change. The addition of Jacques and Olivia also doesn’t help those characters feel like a necessary part of the narrative. Of course, now Jacques is dead and Olivia’s elsewhere for the moment, so it’s possible they contribute more in the future. I’ll have to see how I feel when I watch the last few episodes.
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