When did ASOUE happen?

[Optimism is my Phil-osophy]

There is evidence, which helps identify the 20th century as the century of ASOUE events. To begin with, it is important that you understand that the calendar exists consistently in the universe of ASOUE.
It is true that the Universe of ASOUE is anachronistic. But anachronisms only exist if you compare Lemony's universe with our universe. In Lemony's universe some people were born at different times from the time these people were born in our universe. Some books have been published at different times. Similarly, some scientific discoveries occurred at different times from the time when these same scientific discoveries occurred in our universe. Fashion is also outdated when compared to our universe. However, none of this makes Lemony's universe timeless. There is a coherent and functional timetable. In addition, some historical facts happened differently. For example, apparently North America is politically divided into several kingdoms, so that the United States of America has never existed. Despite this, some historical events occurred similarly. For example, there was World War I and Alexander the Great was a great emperor in Lemony's universe. Here is some evidence that there is a functional calendar in Lemony's universe and that the main story occurs in the 20th century.
TBB CHAPTER 10: "A group of female Finnish pirates invented it back in the FIFTEENTH CENTURY, and named it the Devil's Tongue because it twisted this way and that, in a most complicated and eerie way."

TAA chapter 4 - "I think staples are made in factories," Duncan said ... "I do not think people have made staples by hand since the fifteenth century."

TGG chap. 7 - "Thomas Hobson lived in Britain in the seventeenth century,"

TPP chap. 7: - "The name John Godfrey Saxe is not likely to mean anything to you, unless you are a fan of American humorist poets of the nineteenth century."

Note that in the latter case especially, Lemony refers to the 19th Century as being in the past. So of course the recorded history can only happen from the 20th century onwards.
In addition, in the UA in chapter 10, we have the date of publication of several books, including the publication dates of books 1 and 2 of ASOUE as the year 1999. By placing those dates in the text of the UA Daniel Handler evidently transported those dates for the Lemony Snicket universe. As Lemony was writing about the past, the main story must have happened in the 20th century.
In addition, Daniel Handler hid the date Oct 77 in a photo in the Autobiography in Chapter 3, making it clear the intention to bring the chronology of the series to the end of the 20th century.

Now, I'll try to show a method I've identified to estimate when the main ASOUE events happened.
As I said in The UA there is a photo with a date in Chapter 3 (page 49). According to the record of the VFD meeting, the photo shows the scene recorded by a suspicious photographer who photographed two complete strangers and one of VFD agents. The date shown in the photo is Oct 77, and we can deduce that it is October 1977. The three agent possibilities are W, H and O. Probably the three possibilities would be Widdershins, Hector or Olaf. Olaf and Hector are about the ages of Lemony Snicket, especially Hector, who according to ATWQ, is only a year younger than Lemony. That means that Lemony in October 1977 would be a young adult man, as shown in the photos. According to the same meeting, when the photo was taken, such an "L" that would have official representative "D" was not present in the vicinity of where the meetings of this unit of VFD happened. This scenario fits perfectly with the introduction of the UA which says that Danel Handler (D) is the official representative of Lemony (L). The meeting evidently happened after Lemony's first escape abroad after Lemony's marriage was canceled, for Geraldine Juliene had already begun publishing her column on Secret Organizations in the Journal. So we can say who in October 1977, Beatrice had already canceled her marriage to Lemony and Lemony was certainly a young adult.
The second reference date is found in a letter from Lemony to Beatrice in TBL. In the letter from LS to BB # 2 we find the term "Year of the Snake" as a date. This is a reference to the Chinese calendar. The years of the snake repeat every 12 years. And some examples of years of the Snake are 1989, 1977, 1965, 1953, 1941, 1929, 1917. (You can check this easily on Google). Note this is Lemony's second letter to Beatrice. In the first letter Lemony claims to be 11 years old. Already in the second letter Lemony states that he is still in VFD theoretical training. As we know, Lemony's theoretical training ended when he was 12, and that's when Lemony went to Stain'd-by-the-Sea. So the letter from LS to BB # 2 was sent when Lemony was 11 or 12 years old.
Now, of the possibilities of the years of the snake, the one that makes the most sense is that Lemony wrote his second letter to Beatrice in 1965, because in 1977 Lemony was 23 or 24 years old. Lemony was born between 1952 and 1954 (The age evidently depends on the month in which he was born, so for example, if he was born in December 1952, in January 1965 he would still be 12 years old). According to Uncle Monty's words on TRR, Monty was taking care of VFD snakes for over 40 years. And according to the words of the Bearded Man but no hair in, during the Great Schism, the "noble" side of VFD remained with the serpents. This seems to indicate that at the time of Schism, Uncle Monty was left with the snakes. Thus, the main story of ASOUE takes place about 40 years after Schism.
Lemony was one of the last babies to get a tattoo, because apparently it immediately happened to Schism. Beatrice, for example, apparently does not have a tattoo, because after the Schism, the VFD leaders stopped tattooing the neophytes.

So, about 40 years after the birth of Lemony is when the main story happened, this brings us between 1992 and 1994.
Thus, the main story of ASOUE occurred in the early 1990s.

[tonyvfd]

Another theory I read is that asoue takes place in a post apocaliptic world. this would help explain the anachronist technology.

[The Seer]

Mar 26, 2019 17:31:05 GMT -5 tonyvfd said:

Another theory I read is that asoue takes place in a post apocaliptic world. this would help explain the anachronist technology.

At the risk of being argumentative, I think that theory is absurd. Not only does it lean on the Netflix series¹, but it implies that in this post-apocalyptic world, the only changes were adoption of technology from the adjacent century. All history and culture are then almost completely unaffected². If that qualifies, then walking into the more hipster-ridden areas of New York City is akin to walking into a 

post-apocalyptic world³. Theories that cannot be disproven are not automatically seen as equal to theories with some proof, as in the world of science or fan theories, everything is false until proven true⁴.

---

¹While I do agree that it should be taken canonically, it should be with quite a few grains of salt and should not be relied upon so heavily for a theory of this scale.
²I say 'almost' due to the tendency of Snicket to write the occasional character's dialogue in a somewhat goreyesque formality.
³Not to say that feeling of the death of civilisation and existential horror does not accompany the company of hipsters already.
⁴This postulation is one I believe is the best way to determine fact. The reason we cannot use it ethically in law but cannot when discussing themes and facts is theories, themes, or facts cannot be hurt by being assumed to be false.

[Foxy]

Mar 26, 2019 15:03:28 GMT -5 Optimism is my Phil-osophy said:

For example, apparently North America is politically divided into several kingdoms, so that the United States of America has never existed.

But in TWW Snicket writes that Violet had a hive the shape of the state of Minnesota.

Lemony was one of the last babies to get a tattoo, because apparently it immediately happened to Schism. Beatrice, for example, apparently does not have a tattoo, because after the Schism, the VFD leaders stopped tattooing the neophytes.

So Beatrice is younger than Lemony?  But in ATWQ, she is mentioned as being out in the field with Olaf.  Wouldn't that make her the same age?

So, about 40 years after the birth of Lemony is when the main story happened, this brings us between 1992 and 1994.
Thus, the main story of ASOUE occurred in the early 1990s.

This would make the Baudelaires contemporaries of Harry Potter.  Awesome!!

Those are some neat facts you bring up.

[counto]

My theory is that A Series of Unfortunate Events is set in the early 70's, pacifically the year 1972.

Now a lot people think it's set in the 1920's judging by the characters fashion choices. But I think that this is because a lot of the characters (mainly adults) were born and grew up in the 20's and 30's. Which would make sense since some older people actually wear older clothes. In most cases some older parents give their kids hand me downs or dress them in a similar manner. 

We know that the events of ASOUE take place during the year of the rat. Rat years being (1912, 1924, 1936, 1948, 1960, 1972, 1984, 1996 and so on). It's a safe bet that it takes place somewhere in the middle of the 20th century.

Another reason popular reason is that in The End, Olaf recites a lyric poem before his death called This Be The Verse by Philip Larkin. Which was first published in August 1971 in an issue of New Humanist magazine. You might think that's just a random literally reference, but remember there are a ton of other literacy references that predate this. So if ASOUE is set in 1972, this poem is likely to be fairly new.

To further expand upon this I put together a small timeline of character's birthdays. 

First is Violet Baudelaire, at the start of the series she's 14 but later turns 15 during the Grim Grotto. Violet's Chinese Zodiac is the Rooster. 
Rooster Years (1933, 1945, 1957, 1969, ect). 

Second is Klaus Baudelaire, in the beginning he's 12, but turns 13 in the Vile Village. His zodiac is the Pig. 
Pig Years (1923, 1935, 1947, 1959, 1971, ect). 

Third is Sunny, it's speculated she is 1 or 2 years old throughout the book series since she's referred to as a toddler or baby. Her zodiac is a Dog. 
Dog Years (1922, 1934, 1946, 1958, 1970, ect). 

Fourth Fiona, she's a little older than Violet is. Her zodiac is the Monkey. 
Monkey Years (1920, 1932, 1944, 1956, ect). 

Fifth and finally the Quagmire Triplets, they're said to be born a year before Klaus, their zodiac is also the Dog. 


(The Results): 
1956 - Fiona is born 
1957 - Violet Baudelaire is born 
1958 - The Quagmires are born 
1959 - Klaus Baudelaire is born 
1970 - Sunny Baudelaire is born 


(Extra Details): 
* Miserable Mill - Pink Floyd is mentioned, Pink first came out in 1965. 
* Austere Academy - The "advanced" computer 
* Hostile Hospital - In Last Chance General Store has fiber-optic cable for sale, fiber optic cable was invented in 1952. 

[Dante]

Unfortunately for any attempt to date ASoUE by its literary allusions, ATWQ features Lemony and his friends discussing Nobody's Family is Going to Change, a Louise Fitzhugh novel which was published in 1974. By some metrics, the first books in ASoUE might have been published before the events described therein even took place!

[Optimism is my Phil-osophy]

An important detail (it's great to see an old text of mine being reread, I usually don't re-read what I wrote in the past unless I have a good reason) is that when I wrote this text I didn't know about "The year the Rat ". Furthermore, I believed that Lemony had been tattooed when he was a baby and not when he was a small child. I had also extended the period of publishing ASOUE in Lemony's universe for several decades. Currently, after long heated speeches I am sure that Lemony was tattooed when he was a child, and that 12 ASOUE books have been published over 10 years. So, that puts a part of the main events described in ASOUE in 1996. So the fire at the Baudelaire mansion may have happened in 1994 or 1995. In order to adjust what Lemony said about Klaus having been unable to sleep for years because of what happened with Uncle Monty with the fact that Lemony knows about it from the island book, I concluded that the fire certainly happened in 1994 and the island left in 1996, or the fire happened in 1995 and the island left in 1997. Anyway between leaving the island and publishing TBB in the ASOUE universe, there were a few years when Lemony tried to publish TBB and failed (although he started writing TBB since the Baudelaires were still living the events described in ASOUE).

This way of thinking was recently reinforced by the discussion we made about Zombies in the Snow, where we came to the conclusion that Lemony's almost encounter with Gustav Sebald described in LSTUA happened years after the main events narrated in ASOUE, with Gustav Sebald not being the assistant Uncle Monty's or Gustav was Uncle Monty's assistant and survived Count Olaf's assassination attempt.

Edit - Furthermore, I find it easy for the author to imagine himself writing as Lemony Snicket in the very year that Daniel Handler was. He imagined something like: "I am going to narrate something that happened a few years ago with these children". At least, that was what he was thinking about when he wrote TRR. And when he wrote LSTUA he posted a publication released in 2001 and he wrote the publication date. It is evident to me that Daniel Handler imagined himself writing at the time he was actually writing at least until he published LSTUA.

Regarding the literary references in ATWQ, I tried to follow this path once, and it didn't work out very well. But still, I got close.

If the fire happened in 1996 and left the island in 1998, that puts Violet's birth in 1982. If at that time Lemony was 20 years old, then the events described in ATWQ happened in 1974 (8 years earlier). In this case, the time between leaving the island and the publication of TBB would be only 1 year, which is possible although I don't like it.

I don't like it because the year of the snake that Lemony was 11 or 12 years old in must be 1977 or 1965. If it was 1977 the events recorded in ATWQ, Lemony could be 18 years old in 1982. (minimum age to get married if you are an orphan , does not have a legal guardian or if your parents are against your marriage in the universe of ASOUE). But in that case, Beatrice would have had Violet in the year that Lemony turned 18. So, everything is very tight and very confusing.

For me to believe this, I would need to believe that Lemony proposed to Beatrice before she turned 18. This is possible, but he would also need to have started working before he turned 18. And he only started working after he graduated. I don't know what graduation is like in the ASOUE universe or in VFD, but let's continue. In order for all of this to work, we would need to think that Lemony graduated at around 16, and by that time Beatrice was already touring several cities and some time must pass before she canceled the wedding after Lemony had run away. So, for everything to fit better, it is better to believe that the literary references in ATWQ are anachronistic, as well as a lot in ASOUE.

And the most important thing, I think, is to highlight that if at the beginning of ASOUE Daniel Handler maybe thought of writing something contemporary, from TSS he visualized that the anachronistic tone was more than enough to make the series even more confusing and make it really impossible to be accurately dated. And since ATWQ was written after TSS, he still had that in mind.

[Skelly Craig]

Looks like it's set in the 1970s then... in a parallel universe that is.

[Dante]

Aug 11, 2020 7:48:19 GMT -5 Optimism is my Phil-osophy said:

And when he wrote LSTUA he posted a publication released in 2001 and he wrote the publication date. It is evident to me that Daniel Handler imagined himself writing at the time he was actually writing at least until he published LSTUA.

It's been a long time since I thought about the fact that some of the publications excerpted in Lemony's commonplace book in Chapter Ten of the U.A. had years of publication marked on them. Might have been necessary to the citation, since they were real publications. Of course, for the purposes of the Snicket universe, we are always safe to remember that "For various reasons, portions of this chapter have been changed or made up entirely". (Doesn't help the other allusions, although people really do place too much weight both on them and on the idea that the Averse must share our history.)

[Optimism is my Phil-osophy]

If there were a year of publication in the fictional books cited in that chapter, we could have something really concrete there. But we have a detail. Even ASOUE books have the dates of publication, and I believe that at least they would not be obliged to write the dates. ASOUE's books are both real books and fictional books, aren't they? They exist both in our universe and in Lemony's universe.

[counto]

Well the author has stated that his world is literally built around book fiction, from the character names and the locations.
There are a few pieces of non-real life fiction books in the series as mentioned.

Some real fiction books being Anna Karenina by Leo Tolstoy and Moby Dick by Herman Melville.

I think there's a fine line between fictional and reality in the ASOUE universe. The reality part being the Baudelaire orphans case and Lemony Snicket.

[Be actress Beatrice]

counto
In my headcanon asoue it happens in the 70's. And the descriptions of ATWQ seem to have happened in the 20's.

[counto]

I have a similar headcanon for mine. ASOUE happens in the early 70's, ATWQ takes place in the mid 30's.