Great 667 Re-Read 2019 - The Slippery Slope

[veryferociousdrama]

All snow scouts must be...

[Foxy]

Personal Notes:

I highly doubt Mrs. Bass ever gave Carmelita a lollipop. (4)

It was Kit’s idea to use a sugarbowl as a hiding place. (5)

So did Lemony and Kit stay at the Hotel Denouement? It burned down… and Kit died… (5)

Esmé appears to have stolen Beatrice’s snow suit. (6)

TWWHBNB & TMWTBBNH celebrated with wine… and finger puppets. (6)

Why was the headquarters already abandoned? (6)

What was hidden in the figurine at the carnival? (6)

The green signaling devices are somewhat new to V.F.D., because TMWTBBNH doesn’t know what they are, and he says he hasn’t been a volunteer in a long time. (6)

How did Quigley know the telegram never arrived? (7)

Esmé was in charge of the Quagmire estate???!!! (8)

Who did Jacques go to interview in Paltryville? Does this align with TUA? (8)

If the gathering is six days away, someone had to have planted that message in the fridge either that day, Friday, or the day before. (11)

I LOVE Klaus saying “…and calcium disodium, an allegedly natural preservative.” (11)

Does Count Olaf really love Esmé? Really? I don’t think so. (11)

--------------------------------------------------------

THE SLIPPERY SLOPE



CHARACTERS:

dead poet (1) Robert Frost?

Violet Baudelaire (1)

Klaus Baudelaire (1)

Sunny Baudelaire (3)

Count Olaf (3)

Esmé Squalor (3)

Hook-handed man (3)

Two women with white powder all over their faces (3)

Kevin (3)

Colette (3)

Hugo (3)

Sumac (1) a singer Violet admires

Quagmires (m) (1)

Jacques Snicket (m) (2)

Carmelita Spats (2)

Madame Lulu (m) (2)

Mr. Poe (m) (2)

Dr. Orwell (m) (3)

Uncle Bruce (4)

Snow Scouts (4)

Dr. Montgomery (m) (5)

comrade who took the pole out of the Vertical Flame Diversion to build a submarine (5) Widdershins?

his dear sister (5)

Beatrice (5)

the man with the beard but no hair (6)

the woman with the hair but no beard (6)

infant servant (m) (6)

Sir Isaac Newton (m) (7)

Bonnie and Clyde (m) (7)

Quigley Quagmire (7)

C.M. Kornbluth (9: mechanical instructor at V.F.D. headquarters

Isadora’s poetry teacher (m) (11)

Quigley’s cartography teacher? (m) (11)

Dr. Isaac Anwhistle (12): “Ike”

the person who through the sugar bowl out the window (12)

bone expert (13)

Algernon Charles Swinburne (13)



VIOLET’S INVENTION:

Drag chute (1), fork-assisted climbing shoes (9)



KLAUS’S RESEARCH:

Verbal Fridge Dialogue (9)



SUNNY’S BITING/COOKING:

Preparing meals for the theater troupe (6)



V.F.D.:

Valley of Four Drafts (1)

Verbal Fridge Dialogue (2)

Volunteer Feline Detectives (4)

Very Fascinating Drama (4)

Very Fun Day (4)

Vinegar-Flavored Doughnuts (4)

Violent Frozen Dragonflies (4)

Voracious Fierce Dragon (4)

Vain Fat Dictator (4)

Vertical Flame Diversion (5)

Verdant Flammable Devices (7)

Vernacularly Fastened Door (7)

Very Fresh Dill (9)



THE LIBRARY:

V.F.D. library



SNICKET SECRETS:

He has never been able to find the remains of the caravan, even after months of searching with a lantern and a rhyming dictionary. (1)

He prefers to stay in hotels or rented castles. (3)

He wrote a mysterious letter to his sister. (5)

He went to Thailand to interview a taxi driver. (6)

He participates in discussions on how the world has become a corrupt and dangerous place and whether or not there are enough people with the integrity and decency necessary to keep the entire planet from descending into despair. (7)

The few times he has led a life of impulsive passion have led to all sorts of trouble, from false accusations of arson to a broken cuff link he can never have repaired. (7)

He once told the woman he loved trouble would end soon and they would get married. (8)

He used to watch volunteer eagles from the window of the V.F.D. headquarters. (8)

He left a pickle in a refrigerator (maybe the V.F.D. headquarters?) and now it will never go into a coded sandwich. (12)

He kept bringing bones to a bone expert until she told him he was making her so miserable he was never allowed to return. (13)



REFERENCES (real and made up):

“The Road Less Traveled” (1)

a book about snow gnats Klaus read (2)

Cinderella (3)

The Daily Punctilio (4)

Remarkable Phenomena of the Mortmain Mountains (5)

Corridors of Power (7)

Anna Karenina (7)

The Garden of Proserpine (11)

The Itsy Bitsy Spider (12)



SNICKETISMS:

the one about having a room with a view (1)

the one about dragging a sheriff behind you (1)

the one about fate (1)

the one about wishing (2)

the one about taking one’s chances (2)

the one about taking a page from someone else’s book (4)

the one about having an aura of menace (6)

the one about being trampled by an ox (8)

the one about a refrigerator holding all sorts of important things and a maniac poking you with a stick if you don’t give him a basket of strawberries (9)

the one about liking to take a break from your family and friends unless you are a hermit or half a pair of Siamese twins (10)

the one about “set” having the most definitions in the dictionary (10)

the one about the light bulb over someone’s head (11)

the one about someone lurking just outside the light of your flashlight (11)

the one about taking someone prisoner being a villainous thing to do (11)

the one about deciding the right thing to do or what to wear to a party (11)

the one about Stockholm syndrome (12)

the one about the itsy bitsy spider (12)

the one about having a pledge (13)



BAUDELAIRE FAMILY HISTORY:

Once Sunny’s mother told her about how presentation is as important as the food itself. (6)

Their father kept verdant flammable devices in his desk drawer. (7)

Mrs. Baudelaire read Anna Karenina to Klaus when he was young. (7)

Violet spent one summer studying the laws of thermodynamics and building a miniature helicopter out of an eggbeater and some old copper wiring. (7)

Their father used to say a good meal can cheer one up considerably. (10)

The parents sang a song to Violet with the words “The World is Quiet Here” when she was very young. (12)



SNICKET DICTIONARY:

A dark day: a sad time in the history of the Baudelaire children, V.F.D., and all kind, brave, and well-read people in the world (4)

Appropriate accoutrements: bagels, cream cheese, sliced cucumber, black pepper, and capers, which can be eaten along with the lox for an enjoyable meal (9)

Brace yourself: get ready for something that will probably be difficult (10)

Carry the day: enable Violet Baudelaire and Quigley Quagmire to climb up a frozen waterfall after bracing themselves for the difficult journey (10)

Centerpiece: a decoration placed in the middle of a table, often used to distract people from the food (6)

Complied: followed Violet’s suggestion and read a very complicated paragraph out loud, explaining it as he went along (11)

Corridors of power: the hushed and often secret places where important matters are discussed (7)

Defected: joined Count Olaf’s band of revolting comrades (1)

Dressed for the occasion: wearing such strange clothing that the youngest Baudelaire was too surprised to say the final ‘ga’ she had been planning (12)

Endure: meet in secret, communicate in code, and gather crucial evidence to foil the schemes of their enemies (13)

Exonerate me: prove to the authorities that it is Count Olaf, and not me, who has started so many fires (5)

Extreme state of disrepair: an underside of an automobile in such bad shape that it was dripping oil on her and her companion (10)

Facinorous: wicked (1)

Gingerly: without falling into a very deep hole (12)

Inadvertently: where the youngest Baudelaire could hear it (12)

Inferno: enormous fire that destroyed a secret headquarters high in the mountains (7)

Inseparable: close friends (2)

Hazard a guess: continue to expend their energy by discussing the matter (12)

Hazard their climb: continue their difficult journey in silence, until they arrived at last at the source of the Stricken Stream (12)

Lightened her spirits: an identical plume of green smoke, coming from the very bottom of the slope (9)

Nonchalantly: in a tone of voice that indicated he didn’t care one bit about his deceased employees (3)

Performing herculean tasks: managing to do incredibly difficult things (3)

Privacy: time by oneself, without anyone watching or interfering (10)

Proximity: while the police gathered outside and eventually managed to arrest the robbers and take them to jail. (12)

Pyromania: a love of fire, usually the product of a deranged mind (6)

Realm of possibility: could not be made from a few small objects and some articles of clothing previously belonging to carnival employees (2)

Rolled up her sleeves: focused very hard on the task at hand, but did not actually roll up her sleeves, because it was very cold on the highest peak of the Mortmain Mountains (6)

Speak their minds: confront Count Olaf and his companions as if they weren’t one bit frightened (12)

Speaking in perfect unison: reciting a list of very odd words at the very same time (4)

Take a page from someone’s book: adopt an idea used by somebody else (4)

Tiara: small crown given to a nasty little girl for no good reason (13)

Toboggan: a sled big enough to hold several people (6)

Tribulations: opportunities to eavesdrop while cooking for a theater troupe (5)

Tributaries: divisions of a river or stream, each twisting off in a different direction past the ruins of the headquarters (7)

With a spring in her step: in a surprisingly cheerful manner considering she was in the clutches of a ruthless villain on top of a mountain so cold that even the nearby waterfall was frozen solid (6)



SUNNY SPEECH:

Almost (almost done making breakfast) (6)

Arigato: I appreciate your help, Quigley. (10)

Aubergine: I’ve concocted a plan involving this eggplant, and it doesn’t matter if I tell you about it because you never understand a single word I say. (12)

Babganoush!: I concocted an escape plan with the eggplant that turned out to be even handier than I thought. (13)

Bicuspid?: Should I drag my teeth against the ice, too? (13)

Bruce! (13)

Brummel: In my opinion, you desperately need a bath, and your clothing is a shambles. (6)

Busheney: You’re an evil man with no concern whatsoever for other people. (6)

Caffefredde, sorbet, toast tartar: (Iced coffee, frozen orange juice, raw toast) (6)

Carmelita!: You’re making a monstrous decision! (13)

Cinderella: I’ve had to do all of the chores, while being humiliated at every turn. (10)

Coastkleer: It’s safe to come out now. (10)

Drat!: That is exactly what I was planning on doing. (12)

Eureka!: I’ve just realized something (3)

False Spring Rolls!: An assortment of vegetables wrapped in spinach leaves, prepared in honor of False Spring. (10)

Futil: That is an absolutely impossible chore. (9)

Ga ga goo goo: I won’t be caught, because they think I’m only a helpless baby. (10)

Godot: We don’t know where to go, and we don’t know how to get there. (13)

Goo goo: I’m going to pretend I’m a helpless baby, instead of answering your question. (9)

Happy (10)

Hide (10)

Hotel Denouement? V.F.D.?

Hygiene: Additionally, you ought to be ashamed of yourself for wearing the same outfit for weeks at a time without washing. (6)

I’m not a baby. (10)

Intrepid: Quigley Quagmire was brave and resourceful enough to survive the fire that destroyed his home, and I’m sure he’ll survive this, too. (13)

Jacques. (13)

Klaus? (10)

Lox! (6)

Matahari: If I stay, I can spy on them and find out. (10)

No!: I certainly hope that isn’t true, because my siblings and I hoped to reach V.F.D. headquarters, solve the mysteries that surround us, and perhaps find one of our parents. (6)

No pinch (3)

Nogo: I don’t think I ought to accompany you. (10)

Nonat: I didn’t notice any such insects outside (3)

Olafile: (Count Olaf has the Snicket file.) (10)

Overhear! Hotel Denouement! (13)

Plakna?: How am I supposed to cook breakfast on the top of a freezing mountain? (6)

Rosebud!: In some situations, the location of a certain object can be much more important than being outnumbered. (13)

Sakesushi: I don’t think you’ll enjoy salmon if it’s not cooked. (6)

Separate Klaus: (You left Klaus at the bottom of the waterfall) (10)

Set!: I knew you would find me! (10)

Sibling (9)

Sneakitawc: Of course, because you don’t understand me, I can say anything I want to you, and you’ll have no idea what I’m talking about. (6)

Sssh! (10)

Suppertunity: Serving the troupe dinner will be a perfect chance to listen to their conversation. (10)

Surchmi: I don’t have it – my siblings do. (6)

Unasanc: (The villains have mentioned one more safe place for volunteers to gather) (10)

Unfeasi!: TO make a hot meal without any electricity, I’d need a fire, and expecting a baby to start a fire all by herself on top of a snowy mountain is cruelly impossible and impossibly cruel. (6)

Translo: Just because you don’t understand something doesn’t mean that it’s nonsense. (6)

Uh-oh!: That’s doesn’t sound like good news. (13)

Unno narsonist: I don’t know, but they burned down V.F.D. headquarters. (10)

Vaccurum (10)

Wrong def: An Individual practitioner means someone who works alone, instead of with a group, and it has nothing to do with a life of crime. (3)

Yep. (10)

Yessir! (12)



GEOGRAPHY:

Mortmain Mountains (1)

Stricken Stream (1)

Caligari Carnival (m) (1)

Lake Lachrymose (m) (1)

Valley of Four Drafts (1)

Prufrock Preparatory School (m) (1)

Village of Fowl Devotees (m) (2)

Mount Fraught (3)

Lucky Smells Lumbermill (m) (3)

667 Dark Avenue (m) (3)

mustard factory (4)

Hotel Denouement (m) (5)

Heimlich Hospital (m) (6)

Finite Forest (m) (8)

Uncle Monty’s house (8)

Hotel Denouement (m) (12)



FOODOLOGY:

blackstrap molasses (1)

wild clover honey (1)

aged balsamic vinegar (1)

apple butter (1)

strawberry jam (1)

caramel sauce (1)

maple syrup (1)

butterscotch topping (1)

maraschino liqueur (1)

virgin and extra-virgin olive oil (1)

lemon curd (1)

dried apricots (1)

mango chutney (1)

crema di noci (1)

tamarind paste (1)

hot mustard (1)

marshmallows (1)

creamed corn (1)

peanut butter (1)

grape preserves (1)

salt water taffy (1)

condensed milk (1)

pumpkin pie filling (1)

potato chips (3)

sliced mango, black beans, chopped celery or hearts of palm, black pepper, lime juice, and olive oil (5)

coffee beans (6)

spinach (6)

mushrooms (6)

orange juice (6)

cheese (6)

water chestnuts (6)

eggplant (6)

boysenberry jam (6)

loaf of bread (6)

Stricken Salmon (6)

wine (6)

salted almonds (8)

pistachio nuts (9)

carrots (10)

apricot, strawberry, and boysenberry jam (11)

dill (11)

olives (11)

mustard (11)

pickle (11)

lemon juice (11)

false spring rolls (12)

almond cookies (12): made from Snicket’s grandmother’s recipe; he also eats 11 almond cookies in the first ATWQ book

butterscotch sundaes (12)

[Carrie E. Abelabudite]

May 6, 2019 7:16:28 GMT -5 Foxy said:

It was Kit’s idea to use a sugarbowl as a hiding place. (5)

This is sort of confusing, because Lemony's letter to her definitely makes it sound like that, yet what we hear about VFD's relationship to sugar bowls, generally, makes it sound like it's standard practice for volunteers to spy on people by planting recording devices in a sugar bowl. If that's the case, it couldn't really be Kit's idea specifically - maybe what Lemony is saying is that she was the one who figured out that evidence was being hidden in this particular sugar bowl, although that's not the most natural way of reading the text. Then there's contradictory evidence later on about whether the sugar bowl contains evidence at all, but just going off this book, it seems like that is the answer Handler was intending. 

So did Lemony and Kit stay at the Hotel Denouement? It burned down… and Kit died… (5)

If you want to argue that he wrote the whole series years after the events, you could say that he didn't know Kit was dead yet. The other option is that he wrote it in an early edition of the book, written just after or even during the time in which the story happened, and then did not remove it in a later editions. I tend to believe the second option because of the reference to Hotel Denouement. Plus, it's more exciting to imagine Lemony trying to meet Kit there for the volunteer gathering. I like how the general plot arc for the next few books is set up here.

TWWHBNB & TMWTBBNH celebrated with wine… and finger puppets. (6)

I'm not a huge fan of that particular line. It sort of detracts from their aura of menace.

Why was the headquarters already abandoned? (6)

It seems like communication between VFD members has been deteriorating for years, and of course it would have been made much worse by the articles in TDP about the dangers of telegrams, and the poles being cut down on Rarely Ridden Road. I guess that volunteers just haven't been able to get together and meet properly for a while, which is why it's ultimately so tragic that their plan to gather at Hotel Denouement never comes to fruition. 

The green signaling devices are somewhat new to V.F.D., because TMWTBBNH doesn’t know what they are, and he says he hasn’t been a volunteer in a long time. (6)

They're actually pretty terrible as codes go, given that you can never tell who's signalling you. It's also somewhat sinister to think that 'noble' VFD are communicating using smoke - where there's smoke, there's fire - and they clearly didn't create this until after the schism, so it can't be the handiwork of a fire-starter who was still a member before the organisation split up. They are using fire for a more noble reason than to burn things down, but it could be a slippery slope. 

How did Quigley know the telegram never arrived? (7)

He's also wrong. The telegram arrived, but Mr Poe never read it because Eleanora forwarded him the article about how reading telegrams was dangerous. It seems he (probably really Handler) is getting confused between that and the telephone poles being chopped down along Rarely Ridden Road. As to how he knows about either of these things... well, I guess he could have read articles about them in TDP, but I don't know how he would know about Poe specifically. Maybe he's just guessing? And incorrectly, as it happens.

Esmé was in charge of the Quagmire estate???!!! (8)

In TEE Mr Poe states that he is the one in charge of the Quagmire 'situation', but it's unclear exactly what he means by 'situation', and it seems he only becomes in charge of it when he is promoted. I don't get the sense that Esme works for Mulctuary Money Management, but I guess they could have hired her as an outside consultant, as someone suggested in the 2009 reread.

Who did Jacques go to interview in Paltryville? Does this align with TUA? (8)

It seems like he went to investigate the death of Dr Orwell/Foreman Firstein. This is consistent with TUA, but I don't think TUA mentions him interviewing anybody. I don't know who he would be interviewing, anyway. Sir and Charles? I don't think that's inconsistent with TUA, though, even if it's not brought up there.

If the gathering is six days away, someone had to have planted that message in the fridge either that day, Friday, or the day before. (11)

Yeah, I also noticed that! Whoever left the message must have been in the headquarters right before the Baudelaires. There's a lot that's strange about the Verbal Fridge Dialogue scene, but more on this later.

Does Count Olaf really love Esmé? Really? I don’t think so. (11)

Maybe not, but I don't know who else the Baudelaires could have held prisoner in order to negotiate an exchange. I think the plan would probably have worked if they'd gone through with it. 

General

The first time I read the series, this was my favourite book. Even now, I'd definitely say it's one of the strongest in the series, though I find it hard to pick among the last four. I think this book probably has the best balance of revealing new information while also continuing to tease the mystery, and the 'adventure' aspect of the plot probably makes it the most exciting in the series.

This is also my favourite title out of the books in the series, since it refers to both a physical location and a more metaphorical state in which the Baudelaires find themselves, whereas all the other books are either one or the other.

I definitely prefer the Egmont cover. I find the perspective on the HarperCollins one slightly strange - Sunny looks huge in comparison to the mountain. I also really like the wind effect on the Egmont cover, and the spine colour goes well with it.

I like how the dedication provides insight into Lemony's life. Here, we see what is reinforced in ATWQ - that he has been lonely right from his childhood.

Chapter One

The actual name of the poem referenced here is The Road Not Taken, not The Road Less Travelled. More on this when we get to TPP.

Lemony's analyses of poems are always sort of weird. He seems to be looking at them as vehicles for code only, rather than trying to extract any metaphorical resonance from them.

'Some people called this man wicked. Some called him facinorous, which is a fancy word for "wicked." But everyone called him Count Olaf, unless he was wearing one of his ridiculous disguises and making people call him a false name.' (p4) I love this as a character introduction for Olaf.

'The Baudelaire children [...] had pretended to join Count Olaf in his treachery,' (p5) They helped burn the carnival down! I wouldn't say they were just pretending to be treacherous.

'An ambidextrous person named Kevin used to sleep in that hammock until he had joined Olaf's troupe, along with Hugo and Colette, and now it seemed like it might fall at any moment and trap the Baudelaires beneath it.' (p6) Could you really get trapped underneath a hammock?

'In moments, the two Baudelaires wriggled out of the oversized clothing they had taken from Count Olaf's disguise kit and were standing in regular clothes,' (p7) Technically, Violet should still be in her hospital gown, but I can't really blame Handler for forgetting this detail. I guess we could say that at some point during TCC, she took some of Colette's clothing to put on underneath her freak outfit, or else was able to get her original outfit back from Olaf.

How could Hugo afford to buy so many different ingredients? Is it possible Olivia helped stock the freaks' pantry?

Also, is olive oil really sticky?

'"The Devil's Tongue hasn't brought us the best luck,"' (p12) The reason they're about to fall off a cliff isn't because of Violet's bad knot-tying skills, but because the freaks cut the rope. The only other time I can think of where the Devil's Tongue knot led to an unfortunate happenstance was in TBB, where Violet and Klaus got locked in Olaf's tower along with Sunny, but again, that wasn't because the knot didn't work. It was because Fernald was in the tower and caught Violet. So, the knot should be fine - it only doesn't bring luck if people physically try to stop it from working. Still, I guess I can see why Violet would be uneasy about it now. 

'[The wheels] immediately began to move with less ferocity, the way you would run with less ferocity if you suddenly found yourself running in quicksand or through lasagne.' (p14-15) Is the lasagne reference a subtle call-back to Prufrock Prep? If so, that's a clever way to prepare us for the return of Carmelita.

'When the Baudelaires were living at Caligari Carnival,' (p15) They were only at the carnival for two nights - can it really be said they lived there?

I find the phrase 'wreckage of the caravan' on p16 sort of odd - it's not exactly a wreckage just yet.

'[Violet was carrying] a ukulele that Hugo used to play sometimes on lazy afternoons.' (p17) The characterisation of the freaks in this chapter is interesting. Here, we see several background details about their lives, which makes me wonder what they're really like as people. There's so little we actually know about them, and they're pretty much written off as members of Olaf's troupe for the rest of the series.

'the waters of Stricken Stream [...] were an odd grayish black color, and moved slowly and lazily downhill like a river of spilled oil.' (p18) As Dante pointed out in the 2009 reread, this should be a clue to what happened to the headquarters, but on a first read, it could just be interpreted as a quirky Snicket-y world-building detail, akin to the Grim River in TRR.

Lemony never being able to find the caravan is another seed for what will eventually become the emphasis on the unknown present in the last couple of books. This is also contributed to by the comprehensive list of items in Hugo's pantry - as with the stock of the Last Chance General Store, it creates the impression that the world is bigger than the Baudelaires' story, and this again is amplified as the series comes to a conclusion.

'Fate is like a strange, unpopular restaurant, filled with odd waiters who bring you things you never asked for and don't always like.' (p21) This might well be my favourite Lemony-ism in the series - it's such a strange analogy, yet at the same time it seems so apt.

Chapter Two

'"Did the poem have a happy ending?" Violet asked
     "It was neither happy nor unhappy," Klaus said. "It was ambiguous."' (p25) Foreshadowing for the ambiguous ending of TE? I wonder how much Handler had planned at this point.

Violet points out that they don't have any food or water, or tents or sleeping bags. Klaus says they can sleep in caves, but doesn't address how they will get anything to eat or drink. At this point, I don't think they've eaten anything since dinner the previous night, but I guess they could have had some snacks - and water, at least - while they were being dragged up the mountains in the caravan.

The mention of 'pulling aside a bearskin rug in order to access a hidden trapdoor in the floor' (p27) echoes Quigley's story later.

Along with the lasagne mention in Chapter One, there have also been a couple of references to Prufrock Prep, and here we're reminded of Carmelita and the Quagmires. I like the way this is set up.

'Klaus thought about the Quagmires' tragedy, and felt a little guilty that one of his own parents might be alive after all.' (p30) This becomes painfully ironic on a reread.

'"I just hope [Sunny] knows we're coming after her."' (p32) If Olaf is convinced they are dead, Sunny would have no reason to think this.

Now, Violet and Klaus start to consider that something might have polluted the Stricken Stream. From here, it's probably possible to guess what happened to the headquarters, but since Olaf wouldn't have been in the area long enough to burn it down, I imagine this would be confusing to a first-time reader (I can't remember if I was confused or not - I think I probably didn't think too hard about why the stream might be the colour it is)

Who is the woman with the motorcycle helmet and red silk cape? Beatrice?

Interesting that fire drives snow gnats away. One good reason to be a fire-starter, at least temporarily.


Also, are we doing the Rare Edition notes this week?

[Optimism is my Phil-osophy]

May 6, 2019 7:16:28 GMT -5 Foxy said:

Personal Notes:

So did Lemony and Kit stay at the Hotel Denouement? It burned down… and Kit died… (5)
...

You probably know that I believe this letter was for Beatrice whom Lemony kindly calls "sister." (After all, according to THH, brothers and sisters are not just children of the same father and mother). And I believe that the hotel was rebuilt during the years that have passed between the main events and the publication of the books ... and then to be destroyed again.

May 6, 2019 7:16:28 GMT -5 Foxy said:

Personal Notes:


Why was the headquarters already abandoned? (6)
...

The two volunteers were waiting for the arrival of "JS". When the sinister duo arrived, they fled quickly, left a message in the refrigerator, and threw the sugar bowl out the window. I suspect one of the volunteers was Lemony, younger than when he published his books.

May 6, 2019 7:16:28 GMT -5 Foxy said:

Personal Notes:

The green signaling devices are somewhat new to V.F.D., because TMWTBBNH doesn’t know what they are, and he says he hasn’t been a volunteer in a long time. (6)
...

I believe that Lemony's supporters, who were part of the secret organization within the secret organization created by Lemony, created more intricate secret codes. This is evidence that codes using books were safe because they had not yet been discovered by the incendiary side. It is interesting to note that these codes were not taught in VFD classes, because otherwise Olaf would have learned. These codes were taught by other volunteers, not in classrooms. So Lemony deduced that Uncle Monty never learned the Sebald Code. In addition to recording matters related to a survivor of a fire, the Snicket File apparently contained the record of these new codes.

May 6, 2019 7:16:28 GMT -5 Foxy said:

Personal Notes:

How did Quigley know the telegram never arrived? (7)

It's very clear to me that Quigley hid information. He must be a trained volunteer. But if you understood the idea of ​​a secret organization within a secret organization, you must have realized that the men and women who participated in the Lemony Schism would not let their children be captured by VFD. Lemony created his own VFD in Stain'd-by-the-Sea, and he accepted volunteers without needing to capture them. For Lemony a volunteer is a volunteer, not someone caught as a child to be part of a secret organization. So the Quaquimires and the Baudelaires would never let their children be captured to go to some kind of VFD school. They preferred to train their children at home. The Quaquimires wanted their children to be part of the secret organization even if it involved some risk, and I believe that all three knew everything about VFD through their parents. They were already VFD agents. But they figured to the Baudelaires that they knew nothing or nothing about VFD, much like Hector did. Quigley revealed a lot, but not everything. He was probably already communicating with other volunteers, or with at least one of them: "JS". And "JS" should know about all the telegrams that came to Mr. Poe. Quigley knew secret codes like "I did not realize it was a sad occasion."

May 6, 2019 7:16:28 GMT -5 Foxy said:

Personal Notes:

Esmé was in charge of the Quagmire estate???!!! (8)

This strengthens my theory that Olaf and his troupe were trying to withdraw funds from VFD, including real estate. So Aunt Josephine was so afraid of brokers, so she preferred to live in a house with no market value. She was afraid of dying because of her house. (As I explained, VFD's money and assets needed to be in the name of individuals, since it was not possible for VFD to become a legal entity, since it was a secret organization.) Burning properties was a great way to get this,but passing property ownership on to another person could also have the same effect. Probably Esme got the right property with the help of some judges of the supreme court.

May 6, 2019 7:16:28 GMT -5 Foxy said:

Personal Notes:

Who did Jacques go to interview in Paltryville? Does this align with TUA? (8)

Everything indicates that it was Charles. At TSS Charles knew that Jacques was investigating something about Baudelaire parents. And if what Jacques said to Charles is true ...

May 6, 2019 11:20:52 GMT -5 Carrie E. Abelabudite said:

May 6, 2019 7:16:28 GMT -5 Foxy said:

It was Kit’s idea to use a sugarbowl as a hiding place. (5)

This is sort of confusing, because Lemony's letter to her definitely makes it sound like that, yet what we hear about VFD's relationship to sugar bowls, generally, makes it sound like it's standard practice for volunteers to spy on people by planting recording devices in a sugar bowl. If that's the case, it couldn't really be Kit's idea specifically - maybe what Lemony is saying is that she was the one who figured out that evidence was being hidden in this particular sugar bowl, although that's not the most natural way of reading the text. Then there's contradictory evidence later on about whether the sugar bowl contains evidence at all, but just going off this book, it seems like that is the answer Handler was intending. 

Please see my theory about the possibility of two sugar bowls.

asoue.proboards.com/thread/35893/sugar-bowl-theory-2

May 6, 2019 7:16:28 GMT -5 Foxy said:

Personal Notes:

He has never been able to find the remains of the caravan, even after months of searching with a lantern and a rhyming dictionary. (1)

This to me is evidence that Lemony knew about what happened to the Baudelaire siblings through what they wrote in the island book. How could Lemony know about a Caravan he did not even find? How could he know about what Violet did and did not do inside the caravan? How could he know about what Klaus said inside the caravan?

[veryferociousdrama]

Yeah, we can do the RE notes this week. I'll set up a thread now!

[Foxy]

May 6, 2019 11:20:52 GMT -5 Carrie E. Abelabudite said:

I definitely prefer the Egmont cover. I find the perspective on the HarperCollins one slightly strange - Sunny looks huge in comparison to the mountain. I also really like the wind effect on the Egmont cover, and the spine colour goes well with it.

Ooh, I have to go with HarperCollins - I love Sunny!

I like how the dedication provides insight into Lemony's life. Here, we see what is reinforced in ATWQ - that he has been lonely right from his childhood.

This is my favorite dedication. It gives me a chuckle.

Also, is olive oil really sticky?

Olive oil is one of those things where if you spilled some on a counter and left it there, it would become sticky, and the bowl you left in the puddle of olive oil you spilled would become stuck to the counter.

Violet points out that they don't have any food or water, or tents or sleeping bags. Klaus says they can sleep in caves, but doesn't address how they will get anything to eat or drink. At this point, I don't think they've eaten anything since dinner the previous night, but I guess they could have had some snacks - and water, at least - while they were being dragged up the mountains in the caravan.

At least Sunny probably gets to eat something...hopefully. This is maybe one of the most unrealistic parts of the entire series to me. A baby Sunny's size is going to want to eat every couple of hours during the day, or she is going to be very fussy.

May 6, 2019 13:02:49 GMT -5 Optimism is my Phil-osophy said:

May 6, 2019 7:16:28 GMT -5 Foxy said:

Personal Notes:


Why was the headquarters already abandoned? (6)
...

The two volunteers were waiting for the arrival of "JS". When the sinister duo arrived, they fled quickly, left a message in the refrigerator, and threw the sugar bowl out the window. I suspect one of the volunteers was Lemony, younger than when he published his books.

Who was the other volunteer?

Also, Jean Lucio, I would be interesting in reading more of your theories about the Baudelaires' previous guardians, like Aunt Josephine. That bit about real estate was interesting.

[Carrie E. Abelabudite]

May 6, 2019 13:02:49 GMT -5 Optimism is my Phil-osophy said:

The two volunteers were waiting for the arrival of "JS". When the sinister duo arrived, they fled quickly, left a message in the refrigerator, and threw the sugar bowl out the window. I suspect one of the volunteers was Lemony, younger than when he published his books.

I get the impression that the sugar bowl got thrown out of the window at the beginning of the fire, which would have been quite some time before the Baudelaires came to the headquarters. Whoever left the Verbal Fridge Dialogue message, though, must have almost overlapped with Violet, Klaus and Quigley.

It's very clear to me that Quigley hid information. He must be a trained volunteer. But if you understood the idea of ​​a secret organization within a secret organization, you must have realized that the men and women who participated in the Lemony Schism would not let their children be captured by VFD. Lemony created his own VFD in Stain'd-by-the-Sea, and he accepted volunteers without needing to capture them. For Lemony a volunteer is a volunteer, not someone caught as a child to be part of a secret organization. So the Quaquimires and the Baudelaires would never let their children be captured to go to some kind of VFD school. They preferred to train their children at home. The Quaquimires wanted their children to be part of the secret organization even if it involved some risk, and I believe that all three knew everything about VFD through their parents. They were already VFD agents. But they figured to the Baudelaires that they knew nothing or nothing about VFD, much like Hector did. Quigley revealed a lot, but not everything. He was probably already communicating with other volunteers, or with at least one of them: "JS". And "JS" should know about all the telegrams that came to Mr. Poe. Quigley knew secret codes like "I did not realize it was a sad occasion."

It's hard to figure out exactly how much Quigley knows, especially since he has no reason to lie to the Baudelaires and never appears in any of the other books after this one. It seems like Handler uses Quigley to a degree as a vehicle for solutions to various mysteries he had settled upon at the time of writing TSS, without thinking about whether they fit with previous hints. Still, for the most part, when he gets things wrong, we can say it's just Quigley getting confused, even if it's actually Handler out-of-story.  

May 7, 2019 7:30:24 GMT -5 Foxy said:

At least Sunny probably gets to eat something...hopefully. This is maybe one of the most unrealistic parts of the entire series to me. A baby Sunny's size is going to want to eat every couple of hours during the day, or she is going to be very fussy.

The first night they stay in the mountains, I don't think Sunny is described as eating anything. Violet and Klaus at least get some marshmallows, and Quigley has snacks in his backpack. But I think the next time Sunny eats is when she cooks the salmon with the Verdant Flammable Device. No wonder she becomes such a good chef - it seems like it's her only way of getting food.

Chapter Three

I'm surprised that Sunny's journey through the Mortmain Mountains would be so much more difficult to trace than that of Violet and Klaus. 

'The missing litter is a good sign, as it indicates that certain animals of the Mortmain Mountains have returned to their posts and are rebuilding their nests,' (p48) I can't remember what I thought of this the first time I read the book, so I don't know how much of a clue this is to there having been a fire. I like that there's enough for a careful reader to guess what happened, but not so much that it's obvious.

'"I used to be a member of [VFD] myself, but I found it was more fun to be an individual practitioner."' (p54) I feel like there's contradictory evidence in this regard; that other points in the series suggest that Olaf is an active member of VFD, just not a volunteer. Also, we've already seen that he's not an individual practitioner at all, since he gets his troupe to do his bidding a lot of the time, and later in this book he will act to fulfil the Sinister Duo's wishes.

Olaf has donne a one-eighty since having kidnapped the Quagmires. How come he told them about everything he had done, but he won't talk now? I guess they already found out a fair amount at the library, so he didn't mind filling in the gaps, but he doesn't want to explain everything from the beginning. I'd imagine Sunny being in the car also plays a role in this decision - he seems keen not to let the Baudelaires specifically know anything about VFD. I'm not sure why, though.

'"This is why I never want to have children."' ([54) Except Esme was willing to adopt the Baudelaires, and from the end of this book on, she seems to think of Carmelita as a daughter.Given Olaf's feelings on fatherhood, it's possible she's saying this to appease him, but then her behaviour for the rest of the series is strange if that's the case - why would she go from caring so much about what he thought to not caring at all in such a short space of time? Maybe she feels like she has been suppressing herself and is initially willing to go along with it, then decides she has had enough.

Here we have the first mention of 'the greater good', which becomes an important theme throughout the book.

No snow gnats being around the summit of Mount Fraught is another clue to the fire, but again it isn't especially obvious.

Chapter Four

'the catastrophe occurring [...] in the Valley of Four Drafts' (p68) is a much more blatant hint to the fire, though I still don't think I got it the first time I read this.

The Snow Scout Alphabet Pledge is amazing. As is Violet and Klaus picking it apart.

I sort of wish the Snow Scout uniforms in the Netflix show were more similar to what's described here - that would have been so funny to see onscreen.

'[fencing is] a sport in which people sword fight for fun rather than for honor or in order to rescue a writer who has been taped to the wall.' (p74) Sounds like Lemony's been captured again, although at least someone has probably rescued him.

This scene marks, in my view, the point where Violet and Klaus become VFD members, even though they don't fully know what it is. Also, Quigley knows the 'I didn't realise this was a sad occasion' code, but they don't. Maybe he learnt it in Monty's library.

'hiding in the broom closet of a mustard factory, disguised as a dustpan to fool the night watchwoman.' (p86) Lemony seems to do a fair amount of trying to trick night watch-people - one wonders to what end.

[Foxy]

May 7, 2019 14:09:45 GMT -5 Carrie E. Abelabudite said:

No wonder she becomes such a good chef - it seems like it's her only way of getting food.

Ha! I like your logic.

'"This is why I never want to have children."' ([54) Except Esme was willing to adopt the Baudelaires, and from the end of this book on, she seems to think of Carmelita as a daughter.Given Olaf's feelings on fatherhood, it's possible she's saying this to appease him, but then her behaviour for the rest of the series is strange if that's the case - why would she go from caring so much about what he thought to not caring at all in such a short space of time? Maybe she feels like she has been suppressing herself and is initially willing to go along with it, then decides she has had enough.

Olaf and Esme's relationship seems pretty superficial to me. It's a wonder it lasted seven books.

'[fencing is] a sport in which people sword fight for fun rather than for honor or in order to rescue a writer who has been taped to the wall.' (p74) Sounds like Lemony's been captured again, although at least someone has probably rescued him.

I find the imagery of Snicket taped to a wall quite amusing.

[Carrie E. Abelabudite]

Chapter Five

On the one hand, "well-read people are less likely to be evil" can be seen as an example of elitism being prevalent within noble VFD. Certainly, it seems that Olaf dislikes volunteers for this reason. On the other hand, Lemony does criticise Quigley's statement to a degree. I think the 'truth' Lemony sees in Quigley's words isn't that people who have received education are better, but people who are curious and actively seek out knowledge the extent to which they can tend also to be good. To recruit anyone like this and allow them to access the information they seek seems to be one of the aims of VFD, yet as the organisation has become corrupted, this is less and less something it offers people. They claim to exist in order to preserve information, yet at the same time they are often hiding it from the general public.

'Anyone who wanted to use it had to correctly answer a series of questions  concerning the force of gravity, the habits of carnivorous beasts, and the central themes of Russian novels,' (p97) From the context, it seems like the 'it' Lemony is talking about is the entrance to the Vertical Flame Diversion, rather than the headquarters. I guess it's possible the lock has been moved, but this is still somewhat odd. Maybe there are Vernacularly Fastened Doors on either side of the passage.

'you may take the road very frequently traveled and skip away from this book altogether, and find something better to do with your time besides finishing this unhappy tale and becoming a weary, weeping, and well-read person.' (p99-100) For the first time, Lemony's standard 'look away' warning seems to be almost a challenge to the reader.

'I have at last learned the whereabouts of the evidence that will exonerate me, a phrase which here means "prove to the authorities that it is Count Olaf, and not me, who has started so many fires." Your suggestion, so many years ago at that picnic, that a tea set would be a handy place to hide anything important and small in the event of a dark day, has turned out to be correct.' (p101) These two sentences being placed next to each other sure make it sound like the sugar bowl contains evidence of Count Olaf's crimes. It's possible the second sentence is just a non-sequitur, but still. I'd argue that, at this point, Lemony thinks the sugar bowl contains evidence that will exonerate him, which doesn't necessarily mean it does. I think the best way to resolve the conflicting evidence about what's in the sugar bowl is to say a lot of people are deluded about its contents. More on this later.

'I hope also to retrieve the aforementioned evidence at last.' (p102) This makes it sound like Lemony thinks the sugar bowl is still at the headquarters, which may become problematic when trying to factor in his movements as indicated by other parts of the book. Still, it doesn't have to be read this way - he could be saying that after he finishes researching the Baudelaire case, he will head down to the Gorgonian Grotto to receive the sugar bowl. It's also possible he's not being entirely honest about his whereabouts in case the authorities read the book. 

Chapter Six

'Sunny was busy dropping a fork on the floor over and over again to see what sort of sound it made.' (p112) I love how Handler makes all of Sunny's baby-activities seem totally rational (like the repetitive song from TBB).

'[Sunny] opened the picnic basket in Olaf's trunk and found that it contained a set of elegant plates, each emblazoned with the familiar eye insignia, and a small tea set.' (p113) I assume this is the same tea set from which the sugar bowl was stolen.

Olaf sounds like a little kid here. 

The argument between the troupe members is hilarious. Colette asking if it's safe to eat raw toast always makes me laugh.

Interesting that Olaf only really flips out when someone asks for sugar. I think there are only a few instances of people asking for sugar in the series, and they always are met by odd reactions. It makes me wonder if asking for sugar is some kind of coded phrase within VFD, although obviously the white-faced women don't know it.

The entrance of the Sinister Duo is great, especially with the page-break.

Having villains that even Esme and Olaf are scared of is a subversion that works really well. I don't think it's a twist anyone could have seen coming.

'"I had an infant servant once - a long time ago, before the schism."' (p126) That this was tolerated in pre-schism VFD casts into doubt just how much of a golden age that time was. More on this later.

Also, Sunny should know what 'schism' means, since Olivia explained it in TCC.

'"Fire can solve any problem in the world."' (p127) A very sinister line.

How could they burn down a swimming pool?

'"Every chart, every map and every photograph from the only file that could put us all in jail."' (p131) Except we know this isn't the only evidence of their crimes - they literally just mentioned other evidence a couple of pages ago in the figurine from the carnival! Okay, so they think that's been destroyed, but there is definitely still more, as can be seen from the trial in TPP. Also, IIRC, either Fernald or Olaf refers to 'files', plural, that could incriminate them earlier on in the book.

The man with the beard but no hair should probably be able to guess that the 'cigarette' could be used as a signalling device, even if he hasn't come across it before.

I love Esme's reaction to smoking here.

Is it possible Olaf is treating his troupe worse in order to impress the Sinister Duo?

 

[Foxy]

May 8, 2019 11:11:24 GMT -5 Carrie E. Abelabudite said:

but people who are curious and actively seek out knowledge the extent to which they can tend also to be good. To recruit anyone like this and allow them to access the information they seek seems to be one of the aims of VFD,

This makes me wonder what Count Olaf was like as a child. They had to have recruited him for some reason...

'Sunny was busy dropping a fork on the floor over and over again to see what sort of sound it made.' (p112) I love how Handler makes all of Sunny's baby-activities seem totally rational (like the repetitive song from TBB).

This is the kind of thing babies love doing.

The argument between the troupe members is hilarious. Colette asking if it's safe to eat raw toast always makes me laugh.

If they weren't always torturing the Baudelaires, they might be likable.

How could they burn down a swimming pool?

I think they would have had to have drained it first.

Is it possible Olaf is treating his troupe worse in order to impress the Sinister Duo?

 

We don't usually see Count Olaf interacting with the troupe much, but having Sunny on-scene gives us a different perspective. I am guessing this is how he always treats the troupe.

[Carrie E. Abelabudite]

May 9, 2019 7:06:00 GMT -5 Foxy said:

We don't usually see Count Olaf interacting with the troupe much, but having Sunny on-scene gives us a different perspective. I am guessing this is how he always treats the troupe.

I guess I was thinking more about how secretive he is with them - it seems like he might normally have been more willing to give them more information about VFD.

Chapter Seven

'"V.F.D. doesn't want anyone to see the smoke."' (p139) Why would there have been smoke coming out of the cave? Just to keep the snow gnats away? This sentence seems sort of ominous.

When would there have been a newspaper article about sled and snowsuit storage in the VFD headquarters for Quigley to read?

So, you can open the VF Door by knowing the combination for the lock. Odd that Olaf never tries this route in TPP. Also, it seems like the purpose of the VF Door is for the HQ to be accessible to anyone who is well-read enough, but of course if you weren't a member, you wouldn't know which questions you were supposed to be answering. This, to a degree, can be seen as a microcosm of how VFD operates.

Interesting that the central theme of Anna Karenina is lamp-shaded here, because, as I noted in the TVV thread, a similar contrast is brought up in the later ASOUE books. I like that Lemony brings up how, in some cases, a daring life of impulsive passion does lead to things other than tragedy. In ASOUE, hiding yourself away from the world turns out not, ultimately, to be the answer. More on this when we get to TE.

I like Lemony's take on the Adam and Eve story.

Is this the first time Lemony explicitly refers to being falsely accused of arson? I can't remember if it's stated previously, or just very heavily implied. 

'they found themselves standing in what at first seemed to be a large field, growing a black and ruined harvest in a valley as cold and drafty as its name.' (p150) I'd never previously noticed this, but the description of the VFD HQ as the Baudelaires find it has a lot of parallels to the descriptions in The Garden of Proserpine. It's fitting, then, that this is their first real introduction to VFD proper: 'Here, where the world is quiet'.

'what looked like a periscope, or perhaps a spyglass,' (p151) The second spyglass reference in the series. If Handler had been working on the movie script at the same time as writing this, he might have already come up with what he wanted their significance to be within the adaptation.

'"There's no sign that anyone was here," the scout said quickly.' (p154) Without context, it sort of sounds like this scout was the one who burnt the HQ down and killed everyone, and now wants to cover his tracks.

Great chapter ending. I don't know if it's better than 'Count Olaf has been captured', but it's definitely up there.

Chapter Eight

The photo of the illustration is very similar to the TWW frontispiece illustration, but I don't remember if the positioning of the Baudelaires is the same, and I don't have my copy with me to check.

'"the main hall was filled with smoke,"' (p159) How did Duncan and Isadora get out, then? Or were they not in the house when the fire started?

'"She told me to wait down below while she fetched my siblings,"' (p159) So, they were in the house. I guess they must have escaped through the back door. Maybe they'd already left by this point and the reason Mrs Quagmire never made it through the trapdoor was because she was looking for them when they weren't there.

The Quagmire mansion must have been relatively near Monty's house. Was it in Tedia, or more out in the country? It would be interesting to try and locate it on the map from TUA.

'"it was clear that the room had once housed an enormous collection of reptiles."' (p160) How clear could this have been? If there were cages, then obviously animals of some sort must have been kept in there, but I don't know how you could immediately jump to 'reptiles'. I guess Monty's books would have made it obvious, but it doesn't seem like Quigley had noticed those yet at this point in the story.

'"[Stephano's] suitcase was still there."' (p161) How long after the Baudelaires left Monty's could this have been? I think it makes sense to say it was fairly soon after, to give Duncan and Isadora a longer time at Prufrock. Also, did Monty's house just sit there unused? You'd think somebody would try to sell it, or would have inherited it.

'"I was hoping to find the answers here, but now I don't know if I'll ever find them."' (p161) This just about sums up the last few books in the series.

Here, Quigley says that Prufrock isn't too far from Monty's house. It's a shame it's not shown in the map.

I wonder if Jacques somehow inherited Monty's house.

'"He said there was an important file that was hidden someplace on the premises,"' (p165) The Snicket File? I'd think it would have been at the Library of Records at this time, but maybe not. Why would it be at Monty's, though? I guess it's possible Jacques thought it was there even though it wasn't.

Also, what investigation was he carrying out here? The most obvious thing to assume is that he's looking into Monty's death, but I'm not sure this bears up.

'"I think the letters stand for Volunteer Fire Department."' (p166) I remember finding this sort of anticlimactic the first time I read the book. I don't know what I was expecting.

I like how all the answers we get lead to further mysteries.

'"Jacques said that the passageways were built by members of the organization," Quigley said. "In case of an emergency, they could escape to a safe place."' (p167) IIRC, TUA implies that they built the tunnels in order to hide from Geraldine Julienne. I guess these reasons aren't mutually exclusive. Also, I think there's some evidence that they were built longer ago than that - maybe just tunnels leading to different headquarters were built after Geraldine Julienne started Secret Organisations You Should Know About, while other tunnels between members' houses were built longer ago? The one between 667 Dark Avenue and the Baudelaire mansion would still have to be one of the tunnels built more recently for this to work, though, which I think contradicts what Lemony says in TEE, where he makes it sound like it's been there for a very long time. 

The conversation between Klaus and Quigley on page 167 makes it sound like Esme buying the penthouse of 667 Dark Avenue is directly linked to the schism. This isn't such a stretch from what we hear in TUA, but it's very different to what we find out about the schism later. 

How did the schism start? We are given various hints, but never a straight answer. More on this in TPP.

So, Jacques also had the photo of the Baudelaires. I don't think he took it, but whoever did must have sent it to him as well as to Olivia. This makes me think that the person who took it did genuinely want to help the Baudelaires, but clearly their plans backfired.

'"I waited weeks and weeks for him to return."' (p169) For this to fit in with my timeline, it would have to be more like a couple of months, but I think this just about works.

We find out that Quigley is at Monty's until the end of TAA/beginning of TEE. Let's see if the rest of his actions make sense, timescale-wise.

Who burnt down Monty's house? Olaf is the first person who comes to mind, but I think he would have been busy concocting his In Auction scheme during this time. I guess it's possible one of his henchpeople burnt the house down on his orders, or else it could have been the Sinister Duo, although you'd think they'd be starting the headquarters fire around then. One wonders what anyone stood to gain burning Monty's house down - maybe it was just to make sure no volunteers could get their hands on his library. Maybe there really was evidence of the villains' activities there, even if it wasn't the Snicket File.

I guess, like Monty's house, Orwell's office has been abandoned. Also, quite a while must have passed between the events of TMM and the time Quigley showed up there.

If Quigley left Paltryville around the time of the end of TEE, he could easily have wandered around the Mortmain Mountains for the span of TVV before catching up with the Snow Scouts - I think his movements fit with the timing of the main plot.

'"We think [Duncan and Isadora are] safe."' (p175) You think they're safe? What could have happened to them? The only reason they might be unsafe is the eagles, but Violet doesn't know about those yet.

[Dante]

May 9, 2019 10:41:49 GMT -5 Carrie E. Abelabudite said:

The photo of the illustration is very similar to the TWW frontispiece illustration, but I don't remember if the positioning of the Baudelaires is the same, and I don't have my copy with me to check.

It's slightly different; and actually very close to if you look at the TWW frontispiece and imagine observing the scene from ninety degrees to the right.

'"[Stephano's] suitcase was still there."' (p161) How long after the Baudelaires left Monty's could this have been? I think it makes sense to say it was fairly soon after, to give Duncan and Isadora a longer time at Prufrock. Also, did Monty's house just sit there unused? You'd think somebody would try to sell it, or would have inherited it.

Perhaps the Baudelaires inherited it; perhaps the mansion (or more accurately its grounds) is now effectively a part of the Baudelaire fortune, and therefore just sitting around unused until the Baudelaires come of age.

'"He said there was an important file that was hidden someplace on the premises,"' (p165) The Snicket File? I'd think it would have been at the Library of Records at this time, but maybe not. Why would it be at Monty's, though? I guess it's possible Jacques thought it was there even though it wasn't.

Quigley later suggests that Jacques was actually working on the Snicket File at the time, per page 195: "Jacques told me that he was working closely with his two siblings on an important file." Violet concludes this to have been the Snicket file, though this continues the confusion as to what exactly the file is about - is it the file on the Snicket fires, as stated in THH, and named after its subject; or is it named after its authors? Of course, it's allowed to be both; who could be more concerned about the alleged Snicket fires than the man allegedly responsible and his siblings?

'"I think the letters stand for Volunteer Fire Department."' (p166) I remember finding this sort of anticlimactic the first time I read the book. I don't know what I was expecting.

Some people really didn't want it to be Volunteer Fire Department, despite TSS and TGG making it pretty clear that that was the answer - which is probably why The End had to have Lemony unambiguously state it outright. Other proposed alternatives included Volunteer Fire Detectives, Volunteers Forever Disguised...

[Optimism is my Phil-osophy]

I really only had 110% certainty of the meaning of VFD when I read ATWQ.

[Foxy]

May 9, 2019 10:41:49 GMT -5 Carrie E. Abelabudite said:

When would there have been a newspaper article about sled and snowsuit storage in the VFD headquarters for Quigley to read?

Maybe it was an old article?

Great chapter ending. I don't know if it's better than 'Count Olaf has been captured', but it's definitely up there.

Indeed! I can still remember the shock I felt reading this the first time.

'"He said there was an important file that was hidden someplace on the premises,"' (p165) The Snicket File? I'd think it would have been at the Library of Records at this time, but maybe not. Why would it be at Monty's, though? I guess it's possible Jacques thought it was there even though it wasn't.

Maybe Gustav was supposed to have it.

Also, what investigation was he carrying out here? The most obvious thing to assume is that he's looking into Monty's death, but I'm not sure this bears up.

He could be trying to clear Lemony's name.

Who burnt down Monty's house? Olaf is the first person who comes to mind, but I think he would have been busy concocting his In Auction scheme during this time. I guess it's possible one of his henchpeople burnt the house down on his orders, or else it could have been the Sinister Duo, although you'd think they'd be starting the headquarters fire around then. One wonders what anyone stood to gain burning Monty's house down - maybe it was just to make sure no volunteers could get their hands on his library. Maybe there really was evidence of the villains' activities there, even if it wasn't the Snicket File.

That's an interesting question... I have to think on that.

May 9, 2019 16:21:21 GMT -5 Dante said:

May 9, 2019 10:41:49 GMT -5 Carrie E. Abelabudite said:

'"[Stephano's] suitcase was still there."' (p161) How long after the Baudelaires left Monty's could this have been? I think it makes sense to say it was fairly soon after, to give Duncan and Isadora a longer time at Prufrock. Also, did Monty's house just sit there unused? You'd think somebody would try to sell it, or would have inherited it.

Perhaps the Baudelaires inherited it; perhaps the mansion (or more accurately its grounds) is now effectively a part of the Baudelaire fortune, and therefore just sitting around unused until the Baudelaires come of age.

I'm sure Mr. Poe would have been overjoyed about that.

[Carrie E. Abelabudite]

May 10, 2019 6:59:49 GMT -5 Foxy said:

Maybe it was an old article?

It still seems strange that information about storage in the headquarters of a secret organisation would be publicly revealed in a newspaper. Maybe Geraldine Julienne could have written the article, but TUA makes it sound like she's only uncovering information about VFD bases in and around the city. If she published the location of the headquarters in the Valley of Four Drafts, you'd think the VFD members would have moved. I guess it's possible that's the reason why the HQ was abandoned, but that seems unlikely to me, given that characters still refer to it as 'the headquarters', and that even some members don't know its location.

Chapter Nine

I think the contrast of Bruce telling Quigley he can't have matches, against the way the children talk about needing to signal using the VF Devices, really sums up how VFD members are forced into adulthood prematurely. This echoes what we see of Lemony's childhood, and that of others who were recruited at a young age.

'"I try to be as accommodating as possible."' (p186) Was Fernald a Snow Scout as a child?

'"there's one more safe place for the volunteers to gather."' (p86) There seems to be some distinction between a headquarters and a Safe Place, but I'm not sure exactly what it is.

Again, Violet shows that she is practical where other characters are more book-smart, by realising she can climb the waterfall.

'"I've heard quite a bit about Violet Baudelaire's marvelous inventions,"' (p192) From whom? Jacques? Considering he had never met Violet, or at the very least had not seen her in years, it's surprising he'd know about her talents, but I guess Beatrice and Bertrand could have kept him in the loop. Still, it's weird he'd talk about this to Quigley.

'"Jacques told me that he was working closely with his two siblings on an important file."' (p195) ...even though Kit in TPP says she hasn't seen either of her brothers in years. I guess they could have been collaborating without meeting, but it's odd that it would be phrased this way if that's the case.

Violet and Quigley's guesses for what 'Fri' could be short for are really quite silly.

'Like an envelope, a hollow figurine, and a coffin, a refrigerator can hold all sorts of things,' (p199) Another reference to the possibility of evidence being concealed in a figurine. Also, I think it's a notable absence that Lemony doesn't mention the sugar bowl here, but what that could signify, I'm not sure.

Klaus and Quigley's conversation about how they can solve mysteries seems significant. I don't know how much Handler had at this point decided he was going to reveal in the coming books, but here, it seems like he's encouraging readers to solve the mysteries in the series themselves, or saying they can do it even if he doesn't give explicit answers.

On the other hand, Quigley is sort of naïve here to think they can figure out everything just the three of them, and it seems like that's also intentional.

Chapter Ten

'"My father always used to say that a good meal can cheer one up considerably."' (p210) It's a shame the Baudelaires have had so few of these recently.

'"It's like we never really knew our parents,"' (p211) I feel like this line has a lot of resonance. This sentiment seems to me a very relatable one, even without the context of VFD.

'once thing that was taken from the baudelaires that is not often discussed' (p212) - This makes it sound like the lives of the Baudelaires is a popular debate topic within VFD. I'm not sure this can be true, though. Maybe Lemony just means he hasn't discussed it much.

'I will take this opportunity to give them a bit of privacy,' (p213) Here, we realise the true extent of Lemony's actions - he's been writing down almost every detail of the Baudelaires' lives without their consent. His intentions are, for the most part, good, although if you believe Beatrice survived the Baudelaire fire, you could argue he only started researching their lives in order for her to have an accurate account of what happened to the children while they were separated from each other. Still, I think that, by the time he would be writing this book, Lemony is primarily motivated by a desire to clear the Baudelaires' names and expose some of the more questionable aspects of VFD.Still, it's hard not to think of his writings so far as at least somewhat exploitative, now it's been emphasised like this.

'the afternoon slowly turned to evening' (p215) - it was morning when Sunny signalled using the VF Device! Has it really taken all day to climb up the waterfall?

'Out of all the words in the English language, the word "set" has the most definitions,' (p216) Is this true?

'[Violet] saw the rays of the sunset reflect off a large tooth,' (p217) What?! I know what this sentence is trying to say, but it's phrased in the strangest way possible. It makes it sound like a giant, disembodied tooth is just sitting on top of the slippery slope.

Also, why does 'set' mean 'I knew you would find me!'?

The idea of a toddler shaking someone's hand makes me laugh.

'"We searched for days and couldn't find the sugar bowl."' (p223) This line makes the significance of the sugar bowl seem more universal. A lot of the time, it seems like it's just Esme and a few other volunteers of that generation, most of whom seem to have a personal stake in it being stolen, who are looking for it, but here we see that isn't true.

Quigley seems sort of manipulative here, in the way he immediately is happy for Sunny to stay with the villains. I don't think it's intentional on Handler's part, though.

'"I'm not a baby," Sunny said,' (p227) An important thematic moment. The Baudelaires really aren't children anymore, and now we're given time to reflect on this.