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Post by lsandthebooks on Sept 1, 2019 18:02:01 GMT -5
I saw a few people mention this, but no one ever replied...
Is it possible that Lemony did so much research on the Baudelaires, so Beatrice Jr. could find out more about her family history? Was Lemony's solemn promise to research the Baudelaires made to his own niece?
You could argue that Lemony started writing ASOUE before he even knew his niece existed. But the events from Books 1-12 only happen over the span of say 8-10 months. Then the Baudelaires spend a year on the island. What if Lemony met his niece when she was say 1-2 years old? Lemony is the ultimate researcher, so why wouldn't he be able to locate his own niece...?
And, Lemony only said that he doesn't know where the Baudelaires are. Did he ever actually say he knew nothing about his niece? Lemony found out that Kit and Olaf died after all, so he must've also found out fairly quickly that the Baudelaire kids took care of a baby.
I know that in the Unauthorized Autobiography, Ms.K gives ASOUE to the students at Prufrock Prep (and this was definitely before Beatrice was born) but...what's strange is that there's no individual book title. The book Ms.K gave the kids wasn't called the Bad Beginning, for example. It was only called A Series of Unfortunate Events. But Lemony hadn't actually finished the series by that point, so you can't say Ms.K gave the kids the entire ASOUE series...it reads to me like Ms.K must have had a very early draft of the series. Otherwise, there would be an actual book title.
And if Beatrice Jr. is anything like Sunny she'd be able to communicate with Lemony fine, including being able to write to him.
Plus, Beatrice Jr. never really says she's traveling all alone right? What if her journey to find Lemony only took a few months, and other people traveled with her? Someone must have helped her do so much extensive research on Lemony...
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Post by Optimism is my Phil-osophy on Sept 2, 2019 9:44:35 GMT -5
I know that in the Unauthorized Autobiography, Ms.K gives ASOUE to the students at Prufrock Prep (and this was definitely before Beatrice was born) Well ... You must have realized that I totally disagree with that statement. For me, definitely, Miss K went to Prufrock Prep after the publication of at least some of ASOUE's books. And I support the idea that all ASOUE books were written after the main events described in the books themselves. I believe that information about confidential dialogues, thoughts, feelings, and events witnessed only by the Baudelaire sibligns could only come from the Baudelaire sibgligns themselves. (Like what Lemony recounts happened to the caravan. Lemony didn't even find the caravan. So how could he know about the caravan? What about Klaus's sticky mix?) Also, when Lemony wrote TRR he said about how Klaus felt years later. When Lemony wrote TAA, he wrote that Prufrock Prep had been closed for many years. And when Lemony was investigating the events involving the Baudelaire siblings in the reptile room, according to LSTUA, he was still trying to publish ASOUE's books through the cheese makers, which was the penultimate way available for Lemony to publish ASOUE. Lemony spent several months researching the events involving the Baudelaire siblings narrated in TSS. He even searched for bones and led to specialists. In TSS Lemony refers to the writing of ASOUE books as spending a large part of his life. When Lemony published TBB the Rare Edition, he stated that it had been years since he had published TBB, and he had not even written book 13. Still, Lemony already knew about the events surrounding the third arrival at Briny Beach, as well as the events narrated on the island. All this indicates that ASOUE was written over many, many years in the Lemony universe. And after Lemony tries to publish ASOUE using other editors. If Lemony did not interview the Baudelaire siblgins, the only way I understand that Lemony can gain access to information that only the Baudelaire siblings knew is through the island book. It is important to realize that Lemony narrates only the thoughts of the Baudelaires. The bottom line is that, in my opinion, Miss K is another woman, not Kit. If she had a single book from ASOUE, it was because she was in Prufrock Prep years after the main events narrated in ASOUE. And the problem is that people trying to get chronological explanations for ASOUE have to agree with that. Because if anyone disagrees with that, they are in other words agreeing with Dante, who says Daniel Handler has made chronological errors. This is a valid idea, of course, with which anyone can agree or disagree. But who agrees that Daniel Handler has made chronological errors should not spend time trying to get chronological explanations. Any inconsistency can be explained with a chronological error by Daniel Handler. It is a matter of premise. Note the statements below: If Daniel Handler has not made chronological errors, then Miss K is not Kit. If Daniel Handler has made chronological errors, Miss K may be Kit, but as a result any chronological arguments are invalid. Excuse me lsandthebooks, I do not want to be rude. But I'm talking to myself more than you. As a ASOUE theorist, I don't want to limit myself to one possible explanation. I would like to see all possible explanations, and tread down untapped paths, even though it has been many years since ASOUE's publications in our universe. In other words, I want to think, "What if Daniel Handler didn't make serious chronological errors? What are the consequences of this thinking?"
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Post by lsandthebooks on Sept 2, 2019 10:32:00 GMT -5
I know that in the Unauthorized Autobiography, Ms.K gives ASOUE to the students at Prufrock Prep (and this was definitely before Beatrice was born) Well ... You must have realized that I totally disagree with that statement. For me, definitely, Miss K went to Prufrock Prep after the publication of at least some of ASOUE's books. And I support the idea that all ASOUE books were written after the main events described in the books themselves. I believe that information about confidential dialogues, thoughts, feelings, and events witnessed only by the Baudelaire sibligns could only come from the Baudelaire sibgligns themselves. (Like what Lemony recounts happened to the caravan. Lemony didn't even find the caravan. So how could he know about the caravan? What about Klaus's sticky mix?) Also, when Lemony wrote TRR he said about how Klaus felt years later. When Lemony wrote TAA, he wrote that Prufrock Prep had been closed for many years. And when Lemony was investigating the events involving the Baudelaire siblings in the reptile room, according to LSTUA, he was still trying to publish ASOUE's books through the cheese makers, which was the penultimate way available for Lemony to publish ASOUE. Lemony spent several months researching the events involving the Baudelaire siblings narrated in TSS. He even searched for bones and led to specialists. In TSS Lemony refers to the writing of ASOUE books as spending a large part of his life. When Lemony published TBB the Rare Edition, he stated that it had been years since he had published TBB, and he had not even written book 13. Still, Lemony already knew about the events surrounding the third arrival at Briny Beach, as well as the events narrated on the island. All this indicates that ASOUE was written over many, many years in the Lemony universe. And after Lemony tries to publish ASOUE using other editors. If Lemony did not interview the Baudelaire siblgins, the only way I understand that Lemony can gain access to information that only the Baudelaire siblings knew is through the island book. It is important to realize that Lemony narrates only the thoughts of the Baudelaires. The bottom line is that, in my opinion, Miss K is another woman, not Kit. If she had a single book from ASOUE, it was because she was in Prufrock Prep years after the main events narrated in ASOUE. And the problem is that people trying to get chronological explanations for ASOUE have to agree with that. Because if anyone disagrees with that, they are in other words agreeing with Dante, who says Daniel Handler has made chronological errors. This is a valid idea, of course, with which anyone can agree or disagree. But who agrees that Daniel Handler has made chronological errors should not spend time trying to get chronological explanations. Any inconsistency can be explained with a chronological error by Daniel Handler. It is a matter of premise. Note the statements below: If Daniel Handler has not made chronological errors, then Miss K is not Kit. If Daniel Handler has made chronological errors, Miss K may be Kit, but as a result any chronological arguments are invalid. Excuse me lsandthebooks, I do not want to be rude. But I'm talking to myself more than you. But, do you agree that Lemony wrote the series for Beatrice Jr.? That's a great point about the Bad Beginning Rare edition notes too, with the 3rd trip to Briny Beach and Lemony not even writing Book 13 yet.
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Post by Dante on Sept 2, 2019 12:26:29 GMT -5
Lemony is the ultimate researcher, so why wouldn't he be able to locate his own niece...? TBL, and BB to LS #4 in particular, makes it relatively clear that he is in fact actively trying to avoid her. It is likely also relevant that young Beatrice has read ASoUE, and admits to still having many questions and one or two pieces of constructive criticism, and notes that in some cases the stories her adoptive siblings told her differed wildly from Lemony's accounts. In this respect, it seems fairly clear that Beatrice's reception of ASoUE is not without tension.
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Post by Optimism is my Phil-osophy on Sept 2, 2019 13:50:32 GMT -5
But, do you agree that Lemony wrote the series for Beatrice Jr.? That's a great point about the Bad Beginning Rare edition notes too, with the 3rd trip to Briny Beach and Lemony not even writing Book 13 yet. Well, I think the promise that led Lemony to write ASOUE was made to Beatrice, the Baudelaire mother. This is an opinion that I simply cannot prove or present evidence. I also believe that Betrice Jr was looking for her uncle after she read some of the books published by Lemony. However, I believe Lemony had not yet finished publishing book 13 when he met Beatrice Jr. I think the Baudelaire source of information to which Lemony had access in detail ended with the events until their penultimate day. (on the island, not in life). In other words, I seriously believe that most of the information Lemony had access to about the Baudelaires came from the island book, which Violet, Klaus, and Sunny finished writing just before leaving the island. Lemony had vague information about what happened when they left the island when he wrote TBB the Rare Edition. He didn't know if Violet had met pirates or if that was fake news. On the other hand, Chapter 14 of The End seems to me to have been written after Lemony's encounter with his niece. (if he actually met her) The niece recounted the events that took place on the last day on the island in detail. Or maybe not. She doesn't seem to remember the details. Another person Lemony had access to, who was already an adult and who lived with the Baudelaires siblgins after leaving the island and then met Lemony, told Lemony details about what happened on the last day. To me that seems more likely.
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Post by lsandthebooks on Sept 2, 2019 14:00:08 GMT -5
Lemony is the ultimate researcher, so why wouldn't he be able to locate his own niece...? TBL, and BB to LS #4 in particular, makes it relatively clear that he is in fact actively trying to avoid her. It is likely also relevant that young Beatrice has read ASoUE, and admits to still having many questions and one or two pieces of constructive criticism, and notes that in some cases the stories her adoptive siblings told her differed wildly from Lemony's accounts. In this respect, it seems fairly clear that Beatrice's reception of ASoUE is not without tension. Or...Lemony is just trying to avoid VFD. If Beatrice Jr was traveling with VFD agents (she said she went to VFD school after all), then Lemony might have been running from her to avoid being captured. I also doubt that VFD would let a child travel all around looking for the infamous Lemony Snicket, without stalking both her and him. I think when Beatrice Jr. sent Lemony the final letter, the calling card, it occurred to Lemony that he could be alone with her. She had stopped tracking him everywhere. The calling card was the 1st time that Lemony could meet her freely and in public, instead of her constantly going to where he lives.
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Post by Optimism is my Phil-osophy on Sept 2, 2019 14:03:36 GMT -5
Don't you find it strange that Beatrice used the same phraseology that Lemony used many years earlier in his letter to Beatrice I?
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Post by Dante on Sept 2, 2019 14:39:01 GMT -5
TBL is a book of mirrors.
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Post by Foxy on Sept 3, 2019 7:16:40 GMT -5
If Snicket did write the books for Beatrice II, I would think it would be after she had finally met him and embarrassed him in from of his friends, which would mean he wrote the books many years after they happened. I'm not sure if this is plausible or not. I always thought Snicket was kind of right behind the kids, maybe just missing them, but I supposed that might not be true. Although I don't know why he would sneak messages in for Kit if she had been dead for a decade, unless he didn't know she was dead. Or that the hotel had burned down.
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