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Post by Optimism is my Phil-osophy on Sept 3, 2019 23:57:07 GMT -5
I don't think so ... The End chapter 1 indicates that the entire work would have 170 chapters.
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Post by Dante on Sept 4, 2019 10:43:21 GMT -5
The addition of a fourteenth chapter indicates, in the same way as the non-standard title of the book, that the repeating cycle of misfortune in which the Baudelaires were trapped has now been broken. It also serves as an epilogue illustrating the healthy emotional development of the Baudelaires when they no longer have Olaf and the cares of the world to worry about.
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Post by Foxy on Sept 4, 2019 11:40:19 GMT -5
That's deep, Dante.
The thing that always gets me about Chapter 14 is that stylistically it doesn't seem to fit with the series. It's almost as if someone else wrote it, like when Alexandra Ripley wrote Scarlet as a sequel to Margaret Mitchell's Gone with the Wind, and even though the characters were the same, it really wasn't the same. Violet, Klaus, and Sunny don't even sound like themselves. But maybe that goes back to what Dante said, this is what the children are like without Count Olaf in their lives. I guess this is the first time we see them without a murderous villain hunting them down.
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Post by Optimism is my Phil-osophy on Sept 4, 2019 12:49:04 GMT -5
And of course ... There is my bitterest hypothesis that the poem used in the dedication (La Voyage, by Charles Baudelaire) was used as a suicide letter. My most bitter hypothesis indicates that Lemony killed himself after writing and publishing ASOUE chapter 14, since Beatrice was already dead by this time. Lemony planned to write about later island issues, as stated in TBB the Rare Edition. But he would have killed himself before that. That would be the meaning behind the last secret in the 13 secrets pamphlet: "Lemony is finished". The quoted poem itself portrays someone who desires death, and this is not the case with the Baudelaires. ATWQ would have been written before Lemony's death, and all the other books released by Lemony are written by someone else who is pretending to be Lemony, probably Daniel Handler. (Daniel Handler, the Lemony universe character who wrote the introduction to LSTUA). This is the "excuse" for Lemony Snciket never to release Baudelaire books, as well as for a change in the style of the books published by Lemony Snicket.
And this hypothesis still connects with my theory about sugar bowl and TGU, since the last stanza of the poem talks about the Great Unknown. Lemony, already in possession of the sugar bowl, would have summoned TGU and ordered him to devour him. And that explains the engraving in which Lemony is portrayed in the middle of the sea on a boat.
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tonyvfd
Catastrophic Captain
Posts: 80
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Post by tonyvfd on Sept 5, 2019 11:06:04 GMT -5
The addition of a fourteenth chapter indicates, in the same way as the non-standard title of the book, that the repeating cycle of misfortune in which the Baudelaires were trapped has now been broken. It also serves as an epilogue illustrating the healthy emotional development of the Baudelaires when they no longer have Olaf and the cares of the world to worry about. Based on your analysis would you say that the ending is actually a happy one? |
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Post by Foxy on Sept 5, 2019 11:46:54 GMT -5
And of course ... There is my bitterest hypothesis that the poem used in the dedication (La Voyage, by Charles Baudelaire) was used as a suicide letter. My most bitter hypothesis indicates that Lemony killed himself after writing and publishing ASOUE chapter 14, since Beatrice was already dead by this time. Lemony planned to write about later island issues, as stated in TBB the Rare Edition. But he would have killed himself before that. That would be the meaning behind the last secret in the 13 secrets pamphlet: "Lemony is finished". The quoted poem itself portrays someone who desires death, and this is not the case with the Baudelaires. ATWQ would have been written before Lemony's death, and all the other books released by Lemony are written by someone else who is pretending to be Lemony, probably Daniel Handler. (Daniel Handler, the Lemony universe character who wrote the introduction to LSTUA). This is the "excuse" for Lemony Snciket never to release Baudelaire books, as well as for a change in the style of the books published by Lemony Snicket. And this hypothesis still connects with my theory about sugar bowl and TGU, since the last stanza of the poem talks about the Great Unknown. Lemony, already in possession of the sugar bowl, would have summoned TGU and ordered him to devour him. And that explains the engraving in which Lemony is portrayed in the middle of the sea on a boat. I don't know if that's possible, because Snicket meets Beatrice II many years later when she is an older child. |
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Post by Optimism is my Phil-osophy on Sept 5, 2019 12:14:46 GMT -5
Foxy ... I am considering that the books have been written and published by Lemony over many, many years. When Lemony was writing The End, it is evident that he was not on the island at the same time as the Baudelaire siblings. Also, one of Lemony's last statements is about rumors that have sprung up about their death. Evidently, Lemony is telling about the past. But I think we agree that he certainly was on the island sometime after the Baudelaire siblings were there. I believe the meeting with Beatrice Jr, if it happened, was after Lemony published some of the books. But not all of them. From TBB's page where Lemony introduces the characters and states that he spent years researching the Baudelaires, going through TRR, where Lemony states that Klaus spent years unable to sleep properly, going through TAA, where Lemony states that Prufrock Prep has been out for a while many years, going through TSS where Lemony claims to be looking for several months' caravan and remains of certain twins, and coming to the End, where Lemony recounts events that he most certainly did not witness, and tells us about the rumors that they arose with the Baudelaire siblins - yes, from beginning to end Lemony provides evidence that the narrated events took place years in the past from his point of view at the time of writing. I hate to use the series as evidence, and I will use it as ancillary evidence, because Daniel Handler was part of the team in season one and two: Well the series shows that the events that Lemony is narrating have happened in the past.
Add this to TBB the Rare Edition, where Lemony claims it has been years since he released TBB, and that he hasn't even written TE yet.
Also, I really suspect that the order in which the books were released into our universe was the same order in which the books were released into Lemony's universe. (Not that the years between them mean anything, but what's important is the order of releases.) I really believe TBL was published in Lemony's universe before TE.
After all, according to the letter from Lemony To My Kind Editor, apparently Lemony only learned of Beatrice Jr's existence when he received the first letter. And when Lemony wrote TE, he already knew about Betrice Jr, didn't he?
Lemony wrote: "Because I loved her so much, for instance, it NEVER occurred to me tht there could be more than one Beatrice Baudelaire".
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Post by Foxy on Sept 6, 2019 6:30:50 GMT -5
Add this to TBB the Rare Edition, where Lemony claims it has been years since he released TBB, and that he hasn't even written TE yet. Also, I really suspect that the order in which the books were released into our universe was the same order in which the books were released into Lemony's universe. (Not that the years between them mean anything, but what's important is the order of releases.) I really believe TBL was published in Lemony's universe before TE. After all, according to the letter from Lemony To My Kind Editor, apparently Lemony only learned of Beatrice Jr's existence when he received the first letter. And when Lemony wrote TE, he already knew about Beatrice Jr, didn't he? Lemony wrote: "Because I loved her so much, for instance, it NEVER occurred to me tht there could be more than one Beatrice Baudelaire". 1. Here's a question. When Snicket refers to the general public, is he refering to ASOUEland, or just our real world? Did he write the books in ASOUEland, or just our world? 2. Wow! I never put that together. Maybe he wrote chapter 14 after meeting Beatrice II, or maybe he wrote TE after he met her. |
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Post by Optimism is my Phil-osophy on Sept 6, 2019 13:36:14 GMT -5
I need to confess that I just went looking for this evidence to argue against you, which was very productive ... And it ended up giving me another important doubt in my theory, which eventually made me think you might be right after all ... Maybe , and just maybe, I agree with you when you say Lemony shouldn't know Kit was dead. Because if Lemony didn't know about Beatrice Jr's existence, it means he might not know Kit was pregnant, which means he might not know Kit was dead when he wrote TSS, and maybe the letter is actually intended to Kit, and maybe Lemony thought Kit was alive when he wrote TSS and TGG. This means that perhaps the Baudelaires did not write all the important information in the island book, perhaps to protect the newborn baby on the island. So perhaps the Baudelaires did not record Kit-related events in the island book, or perhaps they did not write that the woman who arrived on the island had been Kit. Perhaps Lemony discovered that it was Kit only when he might have met Beatrice Jr, and This perhaps made Lemony return to the island and visit Kit's grave.
Lemony must have realized that some important information was hidden in the island book, so perhaps Lemony found it necessary to do some personal research on what had actually happened to the Baudelaires based on the information he found in the island book.
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Post by Dante on Sept 6, 2019 15:49:33 GMT -5
Add this to TBB the Rare Edition, where Lemony claims it has been years since he released TBB, and that he hasn't even written TE yet. Also, I really suspect that the order in which the books were released into our universe was the same order in which the books were released into Lemony's universe. (Not that the years between them mean anything, but what's important is the order of releases.) I really believe TBL was published in Lemony's universe before TE. After all, according to the letter from Lemony To My Kind Editor, apparently Lemony only learned of Beatrice Jr's existence when he received the first letter. And when Lemony wrote TE, he already knew about Beatrice Jr, didn't he? Lemony wrote: "Because I loved her so much, for instance, it NEVER occurred to me tht there could be more than one Beatrice Baudelaire". 1. Here's a question. When Snicket refers to the general public, is he refering to ASOUEland, or just our real world? Did he write the books in ASOUEland, or just our world? Both, I'm certain; the U.A. seems to confirm that ASoUE exists in what I call the Averse, and there are occasional hints elsewhere as well that that is the case. The fiction of ASoUE assumes that their universe is our universe, after all. I believe that the song "Scream and Run Away" that appeared on the audiobook for TBB was at the time presented as being by "the Baudelaire Memorial Orchestra", for instance, and over the years occasionally we got young people on 667 who didn't understand that the series wasn't real. |
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Post by Foxy on Sept 7, 2019 8:56:44 GMT -5
and over the years occasionally we got young people on 667 who didn't understand that the series wasn't real. What? No way! I believe you, that's just crazy. |
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