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Post by Dante on Sept 30, 2019 8:33:38 GMT -5
Not especially, since those names are also common in English-speaking countries; Esmé's in particular being derived from a story by an American author (and for that matter, Beatrice's from an epic poem by an Italian author). I think searching for where the series takes place would be something of a wild goose chase; the setting is fictional and not meant to pattern onto any real place, as is evident from the events which occur there.
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Post by Optimism is my Phil-osophy on Sept 30, 2019 9:22:25 GMT -5
I seriously believe the show is set in a fictional North America. There are references to North American Authors who lived in the 19th century, there is reference to the state of Arizona (actually the Kingdom of Arizona), Winnipeg, etc. America is, in our universe, a continent full of families that immigrated in the past. I think Uncle Monty is from a family of Italian immigrants. In addition, Aunt Josefine's appreciation of English grammar is evidence that the series is set in a place where English is originally spoken. The existence of France and the fact that France is not the place where history takes place is evident in TEE, where Lemony explains the expression Cul-de-sac. (It's funny because in Portuguese "cul" is a bad word)
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Post by Hermes on Sept 30, 2019 14:26:58 GMT -5
I do not think it can be Paris, as Paris is not on the coast. It might be Marseilles or Bordeaux, I suppose. We would have to suppose that what we were reading was a translation.
At one time 'Versailles Post Office' was seen as a clue that the series was set in France, but as there is a notice saying 'Versailles Post Office' in English, it seems more likely that this is not Versailles, France, but a North American place named after it.
But I agree with Jean Lucio that the world of Snicket has a North American feel. For instance, the wide open spaces between towns, where one can be hundreds of miles from the City and it is still 'the City' support this. The names suggest a place that has immigrants from everywhere - Baudelaire and Denouement are French, but Spats is German, Montgomery is Scots, Anwhistle is English and so on.
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Post by Uncle Algernon on Sept 30, 2019 15:55:28 GMT -5
Is it? I always assumed it was just the English word being used as a family name. Carmelita certainly doesn't sound particularly German. |
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Post by Hermes on Oct 1, 2019 6:37:17 GMT -5
I'd always supposed it was. As the descendant of German immigrants in an English-speaking country, she doesn't need to have a German-sounding first name - I mean 'Donald' isn't especially German-sounding.
'Carmelita' sounds like a Catholic name - probably her family comes from Bavaria or thereabouts.
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Post by Foxy on Oct 2, 2019 19:24:49 GMT -5
I looked up the name meanings for Bertrand and Beatrice, and both are french names. What are the meanings of the names? I seriously believe the show is set in a fictional North America. I agree. Handler lives in San Francisco, and it is probably easier to write a story, even if it is fictional, based on what you know, lands, countries, and states you know, than on a place you probably don't know well. Is it? I always assumed it was just the English word being used as a family name. Carmelita certainly doesn't sound particularly German. Spat can mean a few things, including a quarrel and the past tense of spit. Ha, I like the second choice for Carmelita. I'd always supposed it was. As the descendant of German immigrants in an English-speaking country, she doesn't need to have a German-sounding first name - I mean 'Donald' isn't especially German-sounding. 'Carmelita' sounds like a Catholic name - probably her family comes from Bavaria or thereabouts. It's Hebrew origin meaning "garden" according to Google. |
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Post by Uncle Algernon on Oct 3, 2019 11:08:01 GMT -5
I looked up the name meanings for Bertrand and Beatrice, and both are french names. What are the meanings of the names? They don't have any meaning in particular in French. Etymologically, Beatrice comes from the Latin "beatus", and means "bringer of felicity"; ironic considering what she was to Lemony but I don't know if that's likely to be intentional. Bertrand is the French version of the Germanic name Bertramm, which is thought to originally mean "bright raven". |
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Post by Hermes on Oct 4, 2019 10:41:07 GMT -5
'Beatrice' was originally 'Beatrix' in Latin, then became 'Beatrice' in Italian (originally with four syllables, 'Be-a-tri-che'), which was the name of the beloved of the original Dante. I think she - an unattainable loved one who died young - is the main inspiration for Snicket's Beatrice (though there seems also to be an allusion to Charles Baudelaire's 'La Beatrice', which is an ironic take on the same idea).
I think the connection between Carmelita and the Hebrew for 'garden' is rather remote - that gives its name to Mount Carmel in Israel, which in turn gives rise to a title of the Virgin Mary, 'Our Lady of Mount Carmel', and that gives rise to the name 'Carmelita' (originally in Spanish).
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