The Return of Sugar Bowl Theory - Another Puzzle Piece

[Optimism is my Phil-osophy]

My current theory about the sugar bowl is that within the Esmé SB there was a whistle capable of summoning a gigantic marine animal. I have already argued that Kit claimed that if SB fell into Olaf's hands it would be almost as bad as if the deadly fungus MM fell into Olaf's hands. This seems to indicate that Kit believed that the SB is still capable of causing death.

I have already argued that Captain W first expressed fear of a question mark-shaped marine entity that he believed to be a deadly submarine that could represent a worse enemy than Count Olaf, but after that he preferred to go to an entity in the form of a question mark. This last time, I claim that Captain W believed that the entity he saw was the gigantic animal, which he believed was being controlled by one of his allies through the whistle that was inside the SB. I claim he believed that because he saw that a woman who was his ally had taken the SB inside GG. (I can say that it doesn't matter who I think she is, what matters is that the woman is an ally of Captain W. Likewise it does not matter how I believe Captain W and Phill have come to shore. What matters is the difference between Captain W's behavior when he saw the sonar question mark stating that he believed it to be an underwatercraft and his behavior when he directly saw a question mark-shaped entity as recorded in TE.
I argue that the change in behavior is due to Captain W's conviction that the question mark-shaped entity in TE was a gigantic animal.)

I have also argued that the fact that Lemony knew that the Quaquimires were in a damp and dark place at a particular time that happened among the days when the Baudelaires were on the island is indicative that the question mark shaped entity can be used as a transport. The basis of this argument is that Lemony is not omniscient. If Lemony was able to accurately report when the Quagmires were inside the entity, it is because the Quagmires themselves informed Lemony of the events that had taken place following the fall of the flying house. They entered the entity alive, and left there alive.
Considering the above arguments, this is an indication that the gigantic animal is capable of being controlled, and in this case a whistle that controls this animal is an acceptable deduction.

Now I think I've found one more little evidence that my thinking is right. This evidence is found in TPP. To understand this evidence, I propose a mental experience. Imagine that inside the SB there really is a whistle capable of controlling a gigantic marine animal. Accept for a moment that this is a fact. Then we'll return to this hypothetical fact, okay?

Let's now put ourselves in Frank's shoes.

Frank had handed over the disguises to Kit, so Frank knew the Baudelaires were there to help VFD.

So I can say that Frank was the person who found the Baudelaires when they arrived at the hotel.
How would you react if it were Frank when you saw the Baudelaires?
Of course you do not want to explicitly reveal who you are, as it is very dangerous to do so in public.
But you would probably receive the Baudelaires as follows:

"You must be the new concierges. Welcome to the Hotel Denouement. I'm one of the managers." (TGG chapter 3)

This is how the first manager received the Baudelaires. Someone talked to him about the bags of a guest arriving on Thursday. How did this manager talk to the Baudelaires?

In TPP chapter 3, this person said to them: "Excuse me, concierges. I do not suppose I have to tell you how important this is. I'll be right back." This first person basically stated that he believed he didn't need to tell the Baudelaires why Thursday was so important. This man trusted the Baudelaires, even though they knew Thursday was a special day. All evidence points to this man being Frank.

Now let's put ourselves in Ernest Denouement's shoes. In this mental experience Ernest knows the contents of the SB. In addition Ernest knows that several VFD-related people are coming to the Hotel D.

You, Ernest, see those three children. Are they there to help or hinder you? For starters, do they know what's inside the sugar bowl, or is it just three people who know nothing about it? You then decide to take a test.

You will question them. What do you decide to ask them? See TPP chapter 3:

"We've got a pond on one side of us, and the sea on the other side. It doesn't sound very safe, and yet some people think this is a very safe place indeed. What do you think?"

Now think: Why would the ocean be a source of insecurity?
After all, a hotel with a sea view is generally considered to be very quiet.
However, this is not true if you know that a musical instrument capable of controlling a deadly and gigantic animal is about to arrive at the hotel.

After a sure answer, the you said:
Now then, let me explain how this hotel is organized."

After a brief departure you came back and wanted to know the meaning of what the children were talking about. One of them answered:

"What my associate meant is that it would be easier for us to start our work as concierges if you explained how the hotel is organized."
You upset answer: "I just said I would do that."

This same man did other tests with them. He first made sure that they had already been to many libraries by asking a question about the Dewey Decimal System. After that he used the Sebald code to ask more directly whether they were Olaf supporters or not. He said in code something like, "I can't tell if you are in or out (associate or enemies) Please respond."

This is evidence that the second manager to report to the Baudelaire was really Enerst. But I want you to focus on the mental experience. Enerst, to test the Baudelaires asked a question in which he stated that he believed the sea posed a danger. And that danger was that the sugar bowl contained something capable of controlling the beast. A marine beast.

[Dante]

Consider the following statement from TPP Chapter Two, p. 42: "Frank should be watching from one of the windows of the hotel, unless of course Ernest has intercepted my message and is watching instead. In any case, when you're ready to meet him, you can throw the rock into the pond, and he'll see the ripples and know you're on your way." This indicates that Frank was in a room facing the pond and which was sufficiently elevated as to be able to view the ripples. This evidence points to Frank not having been watching from the lobby. Therefore it is reasonable to suppose that Ernest, whose position is unconfirmed, could have been in the lobby and therefore would have been able to reach the Baudelaires first. (A moot point, of course, given the possibility of interception - but worth addressing.)

Consider the possibility that the first manager was Ernest. He spoke to the Baudelaires in ambiguous terms and avoided revealing his identity in case there was anyone nearby who might be able to contradict a false self-identification as Frank. He describes the hotel in intimidating terms; "This place is as complicated as it is enormous [...] I'd hate to think what would happen if you didn't understand it." (TPP, p. 55) He occupied the Baudelaires' time by specifically instructing them to assist anybody who asks, thus obliging them to assist people who were their enemies: "You'll be at our guests' beck and call [...] If anyone and everyone staying here asks for assistance, you'll immediately volunteer to help them." (TPP, ibid.) He was then given an opportunity to leave, and despite telling the Baudelaires, "I'll be right back" (TPP, p. 56), he never returned. This evidence points to Ernest being the first manager.

Consider the possibility that the second (and third, as you rightly point out) manager was Frank. Let's examine the question you uphold as so important: "We've got a pond on one side of us [...] and the sea on the other side. It doesn't sound very safe, and yet some people think this is a very safe place indeed." (p. 58) There are many reasons why the sea might be considered safe. If a seaside hotel were on a cliff, for example, gradual erosion could cause the hotel eventually to collapse into the water. People can fall off cliffs, or even drown in ponds. The Baudelaires have direct experience of the dangers of the sea from the very previous book, in which they were captured by villains and endangered by grotto fungi. So to have a pond and the sea on both sides potentially indicates danger. However, this manager also reveals privileged information in indicating that this building is a very safe place; indicating not only its status as the last safe place, but implicitly proposing that it is safe because of its immediate proximity to water, which can be used to extinguish fires. This evidence points to Frank being the subsequent manager.

In the end, the evidence can be interpreted whichever way you want... just as the author intended. Had you made my arguments, Jean Lucio, of course I would have responded with yours.

[Optimism is my Phil-osophy]

But how do you explain the test with Sebald code? Frank should have known that the Baudelaires had no VFD training. Frank would not have his face showing dissatisfaction that the Baudelaires did not understand the code. If the Baudelaires had understood the code this would be a demonstration that they were not who Kit said they were. On the other hand, the Baudelaires did not understand the code, and the fact that they did not understand bothered the manager. So there is evidence that the third manager was Enerst. And the third and second managers are the same person. I believe this is one of Daniel Handler's riddles, whose answer exists, but it is just hard to find.

[Dante]

We don't know exactly how much Frank knows about the Baudelaires and their journey, or indeed about the extent of their knowledge of V.F.D.; but it's true that they have solved multiple codes across the course of their adventure, such as opening the Vernacularly Fastened Door or decoding Quigley's Verse Fluctuation Declaration. In that light, to someone aware of these aspects of their history it wouldn't be unbelievable to think that the Baudelaires might be aware of Sebald Code; consider that there seems to have been widespread belief that their former guardian Dr. Montgomery understood it, after all (the very fact that he didn't being an unanticipated problem that contributed to his death). Beyond that, because the Baudelaires were disguised, it's entirely possible that Frank could not positively see through their disguise and that he was issuing the same sort of negative test you propose that Ernest was using.

Remind me, Jean Lucio; what exactly is your interpretation of this particular instance of Sebald Code; the fact that it reads "in or enemies," but is one displaced word away from being either "associates or enemies" or "in or out"?

[Optimism is my Phil-osophy]

I currently use the Doylist interpretation to solve this. At the moment I believe that Daniel Handler or his reviewer ended up missing a word. But in any case, the original meaning is there. I believe Enerst wanted to know if the Baudelaires were friends or foes using the Sebald code. This is a perception that only those who had read LSTUA would understand. I can't conceive of the idea that Frank, who loaned the Baudelaires clothes, would need to perform these tests. Of course, the second manager may have been Dewey. He might not know yet about Kit's plan to involve the Baudelaires.

Dec 11, 2019 11:27:42 GMT -5 Dante said:

We don't know exactly how much Frank knows about the Baudelaires and their journey, or indeed about the extent of their knowledge of V.F.D.; but it's true that they have solved multiple codes across the course of their adventure, such as opening the Vernacularly Fastened Door or decoding Quigley's Verse Fluctuation Declaration. In that light, to someone aware of these aspects of their history it wouldn't be unbelievable to think that the Baudelaires might be aware of Sebald Code; consider that there seems to have been widespread belief that their former guardian Dr. Montgomery understood it, after all (the very fact that he didn't being an unanticipated problem that contributed to his death). Beyond that, because the Baudelaires were disguised, it's entirely possible that Frank could not positively see through their disguise and that he was issuing the same sort of negative test you propose that Ernest was using.

Another detail. TPP Chapter 9 confirms that the manager who met Klaus in the sauna was Ernest. This manager continued to perform tests with Klaus. He asked what Klaus thought about capturing the children in the mountains. This indicates that this manager who was conducting tests is the same one who performed tests from the beginning. On the other hand, Frank did not perform a test with Violet. He just said that Violet was not supposed to need a catalog to guide her through the hotel, since she was supposed to have been to many libraries. So Frank didn't need to do tests. Dewey wasn't sure about the Baudelaires' identity either until he observed them well.