TheAsh
Formidable Foreman
Posts: 176
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Post by TheAsh on Feb 12, 2020 4:46:35 GMT -5
I have always wondered why Esme didn't steal the Quagmire Sapphires. According to Quigley, they were placed under her control. And Count Olaf, who she knows from her days as an actress, is after the Quagmire fortune. So whats stopping her from taking the sapphires and giving it to Olaf?
Also, assuming that's why control of the Quagmires was given to Poe at the end of TEE (VFD interfered) why didn't she take it for herself when she could have? She always knew Olaf and knew that Olaf wants fortunes. Yet she never takes the Sapphires. Why not? Is something stopping her?
(BTW, the Sapphires are the only thing we see being "stolen" from Esme during the course of the series - when the fortune she should have been in control of passed to Mr. Poe. So it might have some significance to the Sugar Bowl, the other thing we know that was stolen from her.)
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Post by Optimism is my Phil-osophy on Feb 12, 2020 7:41:17 GMT -5
Olaf's actions have long been hostile against VFD. But his search for fortunes seems to have happened only when he adopted the Baudelaires. The adoption of the Baudelaires was not intended by Olaf. According to Dante, it was Mr. Poe who came up with the idea of taking the Baudelaires to Olaf. He believed that this would be better for the Baudelaires. Thus, the plan to steal the Baudelaires 'fortune apparently came after the Baudelaires' arrival. Obviously, Olaf's plan was to withdraw funds from VFD and not just keep the money. It was from there that the plot of Olaf and Esme to steal fortunes began. We have the problem involving when the Quaquimire fire happened. To continue the conversation from here, we need to adopt both scenarios. Considering that the Quaquimire mansion fire occurred after the Baudelaire mansion fire, we can conclude that most sapphires were not held in a bank, but were hidden somewhere that the Isadora and Ducan knew where they were. Exchanging money for gems is an idea that must have come to mind the Quaquimire couple to prevent the money from burning in a fire. But on the other hand, it left their children susceptible to kidnappings and torture. As long as the Quaquimires were in prison, VFD would not have access to the sapphires, and that was the most important thing for Olaf. And eventually, the Quaquimires would reveal where the sapphires were. It was more difficult to steal the Baudelaires. It was necessary that the inheritance right be transferred to Olaf. This is because it was not enough to rob the bank, since the money in the bank is insured. (proof of this is the interest that is accumulating under the amount kept in the bank, according to Mr. Poe). So, even if Mrs. Bass robbed the bank, the Baudelaires' fortune can still be withdrawn from the bank, because the monetary system works by accumulating the money of many, many people. The bank, not the Baudelaires, lost money. Olaf wants to withdraw money from VFD. This is more important than having the money on hand. So he chose to kill Klaus and Violet and stay with Sunny.
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Post by Hermes on Feb 12, 2020 11:21:08 GMT -5
It's worth noticing that Esme's involvement with the Quagmires is mentioned only in TSS, and comes as rather a surprise given what we know from the earlier books. Olaf does not seem to have taken any notice of the Q's until they fell into his lap at the end of TAA; and even then, he makes no attempt to become their guardian, but simply kidnaps them and keeps them in secret. This is puzzling if their financial adviser is a long-term associate of his; his complex plots against the Baudelaires began because Mr Poe would not just hand over the money, and one might think Esme would be happy to do so.
From a Doylist point of view the explanation is presumably that DH only thought of making E the manager of the Quagmires' estate when writing TSS - the middle books do rather go in for the idea that everything is connected, in a way that the earlier and later books don't. But from a Watsonian point of view there are a few things one can say:
a. E may be only the financial manager, not, like Mr Poe, the executioner executor, so not responsible for the children's care; someone else, e.g. a lawyer, may be managing that.
b. As JL says, she may also not be in charge of the sapphires; they may be in a secret place, or even if they are in a bank, not in the part of the bank she is concerned with; her concern is money and investments, not jewels.
c. While O and E were certainly associates a long way back, it may be that they had not kept up the connection all the time; perhaps they renewed it when E became the Baudelaires' guardian, rather like Olaf and Dr Orwell in the show; note Lulu's 'I did not know that Esme was the girlfriend of you, Olaf mine'.
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Post by Optimism is my Phil-osophy on Feb 12, 2020 16:26:50 GMT -5
Very well explained Hermes. I vote for you to be an honorary Dante while he's gone.
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Post by Hermes on Feb 12, 2020 17:37:02 GMT -5
He ought to be back by now, by the way.
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Post by Dante on Feb 13, 2020 6:25:10 GMT -5
I must admit, my initial thought on seeing this question was, "How do we know that she didn't?", but it's true that circumstantial evidence doesn't support that particular facetious answer.
Hermes has supplied what I suspect to be an accurate Doylist reading; for myself, my inclination is to look at the problem as a practical one. As it happens, we do know a little about the physical location of the Quagmire sapphires:
-TAA, p. 63
So the sapphires were physically in the mansion when it was destroyed, and thus it is unlikely that they can now be hidden in some undisclosed location known only to Duncan and Isadora; they could never have been left alone with the gems for long enough or had resources enough to independently take and hide them somewhere. (This is quite aside from the fact that Olaf and Esmé could simply have threatened the sapphires' location out of Duncan and Isadora rather than waiting for them to come of age.) So it seems to me that the sapphires are probably held either in a bank vault or some equivalent secure location. Now, one might suggest that Esmé could walk off with them any time and it's simply a problem that their fame makes it impracticable to covertly sell or exchange them for money; however, lines such as the following suggest otherwise:
-TEE, p. 144
If Olaf can be constructed as possessing the fortune simply by possessing the sapphires, then actual physical access to the sapphires must be an obstacle to Esmé, unless she is actively lying to Olaf about her degree of latitude... which is possible, though unindicated.
What I would suggest, therefore, is that although Esmé is in charge of the Quagmire estate, the situation of the sapphires is such that Esmé cannot take them without her actions being observed and questioned; they must be withdrawn legitimately by the legitimate heirs. Did she have her own long-term plans to obtain the sapphires once her charges came of age? Maybe; and this appears viable given that, unlike Olaf, she doesn't appear to bear any particular grudge towards the orphans in question that makes it worth actively tormenting them. But it seems to be indicated that the sapphires must be subject to such checks and balances that Esmé cannot touch them.
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Post by Optimism is my Phil-osophy on Feb 13, 2020 8:03:45 GMT -5
Why didn't they adopt the same plan with the Baudelaires? Did Esmé's presence on the team make Olaf's plans better?
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Post by Dante on Feb 13, 2020 15:42:39 GMT -5
As in, stick the Baudelaires on an island and wait? I have suggested that Olaf possesses a particular grudge against the Baudelaires that makes him far more interested in tormenting them in the short term and boasting of his triumph rather than waiting untold years; and given that he cannot have anticipated the failure of his original plan, there is a very real question of why one should bother waiting. Esmé may be more patient because she is already unfathomably wealthy; the Quagmires are just another investment. It's also the case that, after TBB, Olaf would be aware of the Baudelaires' ingenuity and might suspect that they would be capable of escaping from such an island, if left unguarded.
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Post by Glittery666 on Dec 31, 2021 10:34:29 GMT -5
I'm starting to wonder if Esme was pursuing the Quagmires the way Olaf was pursuing the Baudelaires.
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Post by R. on Dec 31, 2021 16:10:36 GMT -5
This is a fanfic I need to write.
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