What to deduce from the reference to Female Finnish Pirates

[Optimism is my Phil-osophy]

I refer to the following:

Tomorrow afternoon, the semiretired amateur geologist has promised to put me in touch with current members of the F.F.P. so I can determine if there is any truth to the rumour that Violet Baudelaire came into contact with them on her way to Briny Beach for the third time. Interested parties might turn to Book the Thirteenth, assuming I live to write such a book. ”  — Lemony Snicket, The Bad Beginning: Rare Edition


First, this note was written by Lemony Snicket (in the fictional universe) after the main events recorded in TE. 


It is significant that TBBRE was published in our universe several months after the publication of LSTUA and on the same day that TSS was published. (All books until T.C.C. had already been published).



This means that what we have in that sentence is a foreshadowing. A foreshadowing is a very important thing to understand Daniel Handler's mind when he was writing ASOUE. I believe that writing LSTUA was decisive for all ASOUE mythology, and for the extended universe that was formed in DH's mind. So, in this extended universe, I can say with all certainty that Lemony Snicket was writing ASOUE after the main events took place many years before. In fact, after the Baudelaires left the island. Lemony already knew that the children had been on the island, and he knew that they had left, and he knew that they might be alive, even though he knew it might just be a rumor.



In TBBBRE we find foreshadowing about a hotel, as well as in TSS (where we find nominally the reference to Hotel D).

It is very likely that Daniel Handler had not thought about the destruction of Hotel D. But he knew that the Baudelaires would go there, and he knew that they would leave there for the Island, when he wrote the TBB notes and when he wrote TSS. Thus, the secret letter in TSS, at the time of writing in our universe, was intended to talk about an event after years had passed between the main events recorded in TSS and the writing of the letter itself. (Excuse me talking about that letter again. This letter is my Nemesis). It can be concluded that the reference to Hotel D as still existing at the time of writing this letter was because DH decided to destroy the hotel after he wrote it. Within the universe, we need to resort to other devices, such as those I have already suggested. But under no circumstances do I accept that this letter was written at the time of the main events described in ASOUE, because it just doesn't make sense in any universe.

[Dante]

So, let me make sure I understand your chain of reasoning correctly: The BBRE was written after the events of The End but before the book itself had been written or even fully researched. The BBRE and TSS both mention Hotel Denouement. Therefore, TSS was written after the events of TPP.

This seems like a heartily flawed argument in that you're confusing in-universe and out-of-universe circumstances; that is, you're assuming the simultaneous publication of TSS and the BBRE out-of-universe means that they were written at the same time in-universe. But there aren't any grounds for us to assume such a commonality - the BBRE only positions itself canonically as being between the first and last books - and indeed a major theme of your theories involves there being hiatuses in the in-universe publication timeline not corresponding to the out-of-universe one. You need to decide if this is an argument about character knowledge in-universe, or authorial intent out-of-universe. And if it's the latter, we have a problem, because that F.F.P. reference which forms the basis of your argument in and of itself proves that the author did not have a clear plan. (And that the in-universe chronicler's research into the final book was at a rudimentary stage, given that the rumour evidently proved to be false.) You seem to accept this, though? So I'm not sure what the point you're trying to make is.

Listen, Jean Lucio. At the end of the day, the letter exists. And at the end of the day, all the theories you've concocted to try and explain it as a piece of writing long postdating the series are far more contrived than the theories which attempt to square it with the practicalities of Snicket's publishing situation. My view is that, when you're presented with a broken idea, you determine what the author's intent was and then you make the simplest and most elegant possible fix to make that intent work. A person misspoke, a line was misprinted - and maybe an old document was placed in a newer text to help the readers understand what was going through the author's mind at the time the events described took place, or early frameworks of Snicket's research were rushed to private printing. Explanations which make assumptions which, fundamentally, don't matter; which don't change the canon like fanfiction. This practice has never let me down, and it never will.

[Optimism is my Phil-osophy]

Nov 13, 2020 17:19:34 GMT -5 Dante said:

So, let me make sure I understand your chain of reasoning correctly: The BBRE was written after the events of The End but before the book itself had been written or even fully researched. The BBRE and TSS both mention Hotel Denouement. Therefore, TSS was written after the events of TPP.

To be clear, yes. I prefer the expression "published after" rather than "written after". Lemony could have even written a few things during the main events. But he did not publish at the time of the main events narrated in Asoue. This is what I am trying to prove by different means.

This seems like a heartily flawed argument in that you're confusing in-universe and out-of-universe circumstances; that is, you're assuming the simultaneous publication of TSS and the BBRE out-of-universe means that they were written at the same time in-universe.

Excuse me for my lack of clarity. I don't believe that they were actually published on the same day in Lemony's universe. The publication dates are inserted in the text to help us understand how Daniel Handler's mind was at that time. I want to prove that he did not imagine his character publishing the books at the time of the events recorded in the books. Daniel Handler imagined that book 12 would deal with a hotel when he was writing book 10. I don't know the era of fictional publications. But certainly, the fictional publication of TBBRE was prior to the fictional publication of TE. That was what Daniel Handler had in mind.

But there aren't any grounds for us to assume such a commonality - the BBRE only positions itself canonically as being between the first and last books

I need to disagree with you, and this time I have canonical evidence. One of the notes states that the reader can refer to book ninth for more information about lions being abused. He wrote "For more information about abuse of lions, interested parties might turn to book the Ninth". The phraseology used here indicates that Book 9 had already been written. That's what Daniel Handler was thinking about when TBBRE was being written. Canonically after Lemony published book 9 and before Lemony published book 13.

- and indeed a major theme of your theories involves there being hiatuses in the in-universe publication timeline not corresponding to the out-of-universe one.

Yes, I still support that idea, and I hope that my explanations have helped to make me clear. I believe that the order in which the books were published is very similar or identical in both universes, although the time that has passed between the publications of each book is significantly different.