Whatever Happened to Ellington Feint?

[counto]

The world of ASOUE/ATWQ is full interesting and very morally grey characters. Whether they're "noble" or not, the characters of the book series are full of both literacy and novel lore. 

One of the most under looked characters I think is Ellington Feint from ATWQ (the prequel to ASOUE). 

If you've read books (and spoilers if you haven't), Ellington was a love of 12 year old Lemony Snicket before her father Armstrong Feint aka HangFire was devoured by the Bombinating Beast. Blaming her father's death on Lemony before leaving swearing vengeance against him, she is never heard or mentioned again. 

Some people think this just because she was a minor character that she played no real role in ASOUE. 

But what if she did, what if she had a much bigger role? 


Now there are theories stating that Ellington Feint was the one responsible for starting the Baudelaire Fire (as revenge against Lemony) or that she is the Woman with Hair and No Beard. 


I personally think the first theory is more possible. I mean what better way to get revenge than take away the one thing Lemony loves most: Beatrice. An eye for an eye. 


But I want hear what you guys think and if you have any theories or headcanons on this. 


(Note this subject title is a reference to Whatever Happened to Baby Jane? if anybody's interested) 

[Optimism is my Phil-osophy]

The more I think about ATWQ, the less I really see it as a story that preceded the events narrated in ASOUE. Everything seems to lead to a slightly different future than ASOUE. Especially because of Lemony Snicket. The exaggerated love he feels for Beatrice does not seem to be in keeping with the personality that Lemony would develop after the events of ATWQ. I don't think Lemony de ASOUE killed a person in his life. So, I think ATWQ happens in a parallel universe. ASOUE's Lemony was to have his practical training in the mountains according to TBL. The Lemony of ASOUE apparently really went to the mountains as he claims to have seen the eagles being used for good. I think it was there that he further increased the love he already had for Beatrice, as he indicates in one of the letters he sent to Beatrice before going to practical training. The Lemony de ASOUE conquered a cave in the mountains to call his own, a fact that Beatrice referred to in My Silence Knot. Lemony de ASOUE never mentions SBTS, and none of the people he met there.

In LSTUA there is not even an evidence regarding SBTS. So, for me ATWQ and ASOUE take place in different universes, with many similarities but many differences. I think the book Read something Else makes reference to this possibility by putting different styles of art to portray the events of the asoueverse, which I would call asouemultiverse.

[counto]

Interesting, I like hear more about this asouemultiverse

[R.]

Interesting, although I can tell Optimism is my Phil-osophy that he is completely wrong and counto is partially right. I don’t believe I could be in danger telling you this, because there would be no way of tracking me and I am using three separate false identities. Myself and Ellington Feint are one and the same, and I did indeed start the Baudelaire fire for exactly the reason counto mentioned. Unfortunately, she made it out alive, although Bertrand died. No regrets.

[the panopticountolaf]

Ellington’s existence in ASOUE has interested me ever since I reread ATWQ — I actually wrote a fanfiction in which Ellington infiltrates V.F.D. after THE END and tries to destroy the last remains of it.

Looking back on that, however, I doubt that Ellington would actually go after V.F.D. in that manner. I do believe that she is keeping tabs on V.F.D. in some form, though I don’t think that we actually meet her (or anyone who is her in disguise — sorry, Roxy) at any point in the series.

[R.]

the panopticountolaf , I see no reason why you wouldn’t trust me on this one. From what you know of me I can understand why you would think that I would lie to make myself look better than I am, but I don’t have a reason to lie on this particular occasion.

[counto]

By the way today's my birthday if anyone's interested

[R.]

Well, Happy Birthday then.

[Amber Rivers]

Feb 1, 2021 19:59:44 GMT -5 counto said:

The world of ASOUE/ATWQ is full interesting and very morally grey characters. Whether they're "noble" or not, the characters of the book series are full of both literacy and novel lore. 

One of the most under looked characters I think is Ellington Feint from ATWQ (the prequel to ASOUE). 

If you've read books (and spoilers if you haven't), Ellington was a love of 12 year old Lemony Snicket before her father Armstrong Feint aka HangFire was devoured by the Bombinating Beast. Blaming her father's death on Lemony before leaving swearing vengeance against him, she is never heard or mentioned again. 

Some people think this just because she was a minor character that she played no real role in ASOUE. 

But what if she did, what if she had a much bigger role? 


Now there are theories stating that Ellington Feint was the one responsible for starting the Baudelaire Fire (as revenge against Lemony) or that she is the Woman with Hair and No Beard. 


I personally think the first theory is more possible. I mean what better way to get revenge than take away the one thing Lemony loves most: Beatrice. An eye for an eye. 


But I want hear what you guys think and if you have any theories or headcanons on this. 


(Note this subject title is a reference to Whatever Happened to Baby Jane? if anybody's interested) 

I like the first theory in which Ellington Feint burns the Baudelaire mansion. I bet she also developed a sort of obsession with the kids because she knows Lemony keeps a close eye on them. 

[FileneNGottlin]

Okay, thinking this through:

Ellington is too young to be the WWHANB, who had a infant servant before the schism. Given that Ellington is about the same age as Lemony, and that Lemony is younger than Kit, who was four years old at the time of the schism, Ellington would’ve barely been old enough to be an infant servant, let alone to have one.

Ellington starting the Baudelaire fire is a possibility, but it seems unlikely to me. Ellington suffers tremendously as a result of her father’s death, so she could hardly justify depriving the Baudelaires of their parents. Additionally(though this depends on how you time Beatrice’s death), Lemony hadn’t seen Beatrice in years(either since the breakup or the opera, depending on where you place the latter chronologically), which would make him a less obvious target than say, Kit or Jacques. Speaking of Kit, the final illustration in WITNDFAON suggests that Ellington befriends Kit, or at the very least does not fly into a murderous rage upon meeting Lemony’s sister.

Ellington being Esme is being debated. First off, absence of contradictory evidence does not make it so. On whether Esme is smart enough, I’d say she isn’t, but that’s not the main point. Ellington and Esme simply have different interests. Ellington love books, Esme hates them, and so on. I think there’s also a line in TSS about Anna Karenina that implies that Esme was in VFD training the summer when she was 12 or 13, which would immediately conflict with a presumably 13 year old Ellington, who has not received VFD training.

Ellington could be Madame DiLustro, but this is aided by the fact that Madame DiLustro is only mentioned occasionally, and has no defining characteristics other than the fact that she’s alive while Lemony is writing TRR, that she throws parties, that she’s at least a friendly acquaintance of Lemony’s, and that she has another identity. This could apply to nearly anyone. Ellington could be Madame DiLustro. Kit Snicket could be Madame DiLustro. Jerome Squalor could be Madame DiLustro. It’s a non-starter.

What I think is far more likely is that Lemony met Ellington (or other Association of Associates members) a few times after ATWQ, but they ultimately went their separate ways, as often happens with your childhood friends. This may not be the most exciting option, but it’s the one I’m going with.

[Uncle Algernon]

Feb 18, 2021 15:37:04 GMT -5 FileneNGottlin said:

Ellington suffers tremendously as a result of her father’s death, so she could hardly justify depriving the Baudelaires of their parents.

Not that I believe Ellington had anything to do with the Baudelaire Fire, mind you, but this particular argument seems very dubious. In TPP we see that Count Olaf's own insecurities about losing his parents seem to fuel his loathing for other orphans — at the very least, it is clear that his own status as an orphan does nothing to stop him from engaging in arson. Again I don't believe that this is what happens to her, but it is possible to imagine a villainous Ellington raging at the unfairness of the world out of festering grief, and seeking a twisted sort of relief from inflicting the same pain on those who had hitherto been luckier than her.

[R.]

Feb 18, 2021 15:37:04 GMT -5 FileneNGottlin said:

Ellington being Esme is being debated. First off, absence of contradictory evidence does not make it so. On whether Esme is smart enough, I’d say she isn’t, but that’s not the main point. Ellington and Esme simply have different interests. Ellington love books, Esme hates them, and so on. I think there’s also a line in TSS about Anna Karenina that implies that Esme was in VFD training the summer when she was 12 or 13, which would immediately conflict with a presumably 13 year old Ellington, who has not received VFD training.

Esmé does not hate books. She has an entire library in her apartment and has quite a large vocabulary even if she pretends not to. When she was pretending to be on the Baudelaires’ side, she consistently used words like somniferous to trick them into trusting her. Also, the Anna Karenina incident did not necessarily happen when she was a child, I always thought that it was done in a fit of rage when she was about fifteen.

[Dante]

I think people are doing an awful lot of projecting onto the characters of traits which are not really there.

Neither Ellington nor Esmé have any particular love of books. Esmé's library is purely a history of was in and out at various points in history; Ellington didn't even bring a book with her to Stain'd-by-the-Sea, and the only times she expresses interest in books are when they're about music, or in the context of bedtime stories being told to her by her father, which is about the relationship between them rather than expressive of any particular interest in literature. Both are, of course, comfortable with the destruction of libraries.

Beside this incredibly common trait in the Averse, though, there is no reason to link Esmé and Ellington whatsoever. They have different histories and characterisation. In order to make sense of them as a single character you would have to assume that Ellington's backstory suddenly ceased to matter to her whatsoever and then replace it with an entirely different backstory and motivation, presumably at the same time as she had a personality transplant. Believing that they are the same character adds nothing to either character; instead, it detracts from them.

Ellington as the Baudelaire arsonist makes no sense whatsoever. Why would she wait twenty or thirty years to exact her revenge on a woman Lemony had scarcely been in contact with for years and a family to which he had only the most tenuous connection? It would be indirect and truly pointless as a revenge. Furthermore, there is no evidence that Ellington actually desires revenge.

[Hermes]

Feb 19, 2021 4:10:30 GMT -5 Dante said:

Furthermore, there is no evidence that Ellington actually desires revenge.

I thunk this is an important point. People tend to assume that E wants revenge, but it's quite possible she has realised the evil of fighting fire with fire - which is what her father did, in response to Ink Inc's destruction of the environment, and what Lemony did in relation to her father. Filene's point about her befriending Kit is relevant here.

Feb 18, 2021 15:37:04 GMT -5 FileneNGottlin said:

Ellington could be Madame DiLustro, but this is aided by the fact that Madame DiLustro is only mentioned occasionally, and has no defining characteristics other than the fact that she’s alive while Lemony is writing TRR, that she throws parties, that she’s at least a friendly acquaintance of Lemony’s, and that she has another identity. This could apply to nearly anyone. Ellington could be Madame DiLustro. Kit Snicket could be Madame DiLustro. Jerome Squalor could be Madame DiLustro. It’s a non-starter.

I see this as an advantage. I take it to be clear that Ellington is not involved in the plot of ASOUE in a major way: identifying her with a peripheral character like Madam di Lustro provides a link between the works without disrupting the story.

What I think is far more likely is that Lemony met Ellington (or other Association of Associates members) a few times after ATWQ, but they ultimately went their separate ways, as often happens with your childhood friends. This may not be the most exciting option, but it’s the one I’m going with.

We do hear of associates helping Lemony at points during the series, although he seems to be alienated from the main line of VFD, and I've speculated before now that these may be old members of the AoA.

[R.]

Ellington is a human being, and I doubt that any person would just forgive and forget if someone killed their father.