Fire at the Baudelaire Mansion

[Dante]

I think that the reason Esmé wanted to marry Jerome was to get at the ersatz elevator. I believe that it was once a real elevator (and also went up to the floor above the penthouse, but that's a different matter) but Esmé had somebody (probably the troupe, although it doesn't matter) remove the elevator and install the cage at the bottom. How this fits in with the burning of the Baudelaire mansion I don't know. Some have suggested that Olaf and Esmé started the fire from there, but Olaf being in the passage doesn't fit with the Rare Edition notes, and I just don't like the theory (although I forget why).

Edit: A troupe member starting the fire would fit, but I like to think that if Olaf started the fire, he was working alone. As to when he found out about the passageway - your guess is as good as mine, although I think he probably knew about it long before Esmé married Jerome.

[Antenora]

The RE notes imply that Olaf was visiting the parents on the day of the fire, possibly as part of a VFD meeting. It seems he was talking to them in the kitchen, and perhaps while he was keeping them distracted and leaving wet rings on the table with his glass, a henchperson(or Esme, perhaps) crept through the passageway and started the fire. Esme could have known about the passageway then, and somehow managed to use it on that occasion. Maybe the elevator formerly in it went directly to the secret floor above the penthouse.

[Dante]

I meant that Olaf firing the mansion from the passageway doesn't really fit with the notes... Either he'd have to have been there in the first place, or he'd have had to enter it once in the mansion. He might have used it to escape, but I've never at all liked the theory that he used it, and I honestly do not know why.

Here's my thinking on the elevator which was later to become ersatz:

The tunnel from the Baudelaire mansion leads to an elevator beneath 667 Dark Avenue. This elevator is used to reach the "top" floor, to get into 667 itself (or to leave and go to a meeting) but it also goes one stop further up to the floor above the penthouse, which was some kind of V.F.D. sanctuary.

So you see, it effectively has three stops:

3. Floor above the penthouse (V.F.D. sanctuary?);
2. 667 Dark Avenue;
3. Baudelaire Mansion.

[Jacques the Environmentalist]

The problem here *STUPID TIMING* is that some insist that Esme only married Jerome after the events of tmm due to Jacques' letter, and if this is true then all 'olaf+Esme using the secret passage to start the fire' theories are soggy ash. I think she wanted the passage under her control yes, but also that special room above the penthouse, possibly for VFD records or just to make sure there's one more place they're unable to use. But while she eventually gained control of these things, evidence suggests that the villains weren't able to use the passage at the time of the baudelaire fire...

[Antenora]

I think Esme knew about the passageway, and how to get to it, before she married Jerome. And she wanted to move into the penthouse precisely so it would be easier to get to the passageway(and the 67th floor, which I imagine is accessed through a trapdoor someplace in the penthouse's ceiling.)

I wonder if there's a trapdoor, opening to the passageway, someplace in the 667 lobby, and the Baudelaires never saw it.

[Dante]

I think that the timing is messed up, and so despite Jacques's letter, Esmé might well have been married to Jerome before TBB.

I'm not saying that she was; it's just that I'm now very suspicious of any timeline problems in the series.

[Antenora]

I think the timeline's inconsistant because Handler kept going back and changing things, and I believe that the "could not possibly have been at the same time" statements in the autobiography may refer to these inconsistancies, and hint that the character Snicket's research can't fully explain things.

[Dante]

I agree. I think he keeps on going back and changing things to make a better plot and tie things together. Either way, if eveidence in a newer book contradicts evidence in an older book, then I'll believe the newer book.

[whisperwolf]

tocuna said:

I wonder if there's a trapdoor, opening to the passageway, someplace in the 667 lobby, and the Baudelaires never saw it.

Okay... Ersatz Elevator p208 is when the Baudelaire children get out of the tunnel. "But as soon as their tongs FIRST hit the ceiling, the Baudelaires were showered with black dust." It continues to talk about how they had to clean out the grates before PRYING it open to get out.
I'm thinking this is too much work for a trapdoor that Olaf used only around an hour before. I'm now leaning more toward the fact that the passageway exits at another place (or places), as well. I am doubtful that Olaf exited this way, with two struggling triplets, into the open at midday, then covered the door with ashes before leaving.
I do think Olaf knows about this passage, and has used it before. I'm still of the mind that a bank is behind this, and Olaf & Poe both work for it. Olaf does most of the dirty work, though, and helped to start the fire in the Baud mansion, perhaps escaping thru the tunnel.
JMO,
Mollie

[Antenora]

Good point. It doesn't make much sense to have Olaf popping out of the passageway there, in broad daylight, anyway. Someone would surely notice, especially considering that he was carrying the triplets.

[Jacques the Environmentalist]

Indeed. Plus, he'd be covered in ash and that could get him dangerously close to being apprehended for arson because there'd be half the evidence right there...

[Dante]

Although Olaf could still have managed it if, with the aid of a henchman (probably not Fernald, who was busy), he got the fish statue into the passageway, put the Quagmires in it there and then, and then had his henchman (or woman) stand guard above the trapdoor, tell him when the coast was clear, and then take the fish statue out of the passage and to Veblen Hall without anyone noticing him. Him not being covered in ash is author's license.

Because it would be a bit cheap to later on say that there was another passageway down there which the Baudelaires just happened not to notice. I'm inclined to think that Handler merely took a few liberties to prevent the story from dragging. TEE was overdue anyway.

[SnicketFires]

Wouldn't it have been easier to take the Quagmires out of the passageway, and smuggled them to Veblen Hall, rather than squeezing the Herring statue down the passageway? It seems more logical to me.

[Jacques the Environmentalist]

It would've been easier, but we'll probably never know exactly what happened.
Unless that is, Handler decides to give us detailed cpbs of the Quagmires. *hope*

[Antenora]

I doubt we'll get Duncan and Isadora's notebooks. For them to be provided in any sort of complete form would be an obvious discontinuity. As helpful as the notebooks would be, they're shredded beyond recognition.