OFFICIAL BOOK TWELVE DICUSSION THREAD.

[Deleted]

The whole scene from count olaf till dewey's death did anyone else get a sin city image in there head?

[idiotj]

Yeah, TPP didn't seem like a denoument at all. Perhaps it's just sitting the scene for the climax.

[negativenine]

I'm really sorry to hear about swans... My best wishes are with her. I feel terrible now for bringing that up.

And Kelcea! or Kelsea! I don't remember which, but that's okay! I kind of miss this place, man. I don't think anyone here remembers me, and no one looks familiar anymore. Except you, and Atenora and Efogoto and, J, of course. Not that I've thoroughly searched, I've just read this thread, so...

Two things to address, as far as what's been said here....

1. I'm definitely going to pursue this mother-obsessed person. I really really think there's something there.

2. This is new stuff, and may mean absolutely nothing at all, but I was re-reading THH, earlier today (I'm trying to re-read all of them, but I decided it would be more efficient to start off once the Bauds are on their own), and at one point (pg 33, actually) Lemony says

"A sculptor would hope if his sculpture of four basset hounds playing cards was finally finished. And I would hope like nobody gas ever hopped before, if I could somehow go back to that terrible Thursday, and stop Beatrice from attening that afternoon tea where she met Esmé Squalor for the first time."

My initial reaction was "Oh my god! Thursday! Esmé! Event! This must be the cocktail party!" Except of course it isn't. But it's interesting to see the thread running through the book.

On sort of a side note (no theory here, just ranting about how cool DH is): this one, more than any other, I think, gave me the distinct feeling that there was something larger than the Baudelaires, or Dewey, or even the Snickets could understand going on. I liked it. A lot. That feeling I mean. TVV and TEE are still my favourites.

3. Someone said earlier in this thread that Lemony never mentioned being a taxi-driver. But I don't think that's true. I seem to remember him saying something like, "You wouldn't think if you were disguised as a taxi-driver, trying to send an important code to someone, as I was, just last week." Okay, so that was just me BSing, but I remember him mentioning something like that just offhand in one of the books. I remember nothing else about it. Maybe in my reading-quest I'll find it.

Last thing is just a comment to the mods: Is there a better way of organizing this baby? I mean, I get the customary "new book, giant incomprehensible thread where we all throw ideas at eachother like food," but it would be a lot easier to navigate if we were to split stuff up. Like a poison darts thread, and a which-manager is which thread, and a taxi-driver thread, or something. Although I suppose it's too late... And that usually gets organized once we've all collected our thoughts...

[SnicketFires]

negativenine said:

I'm really sorry to hear about swans... My best wishes are with her. I feel terrible now for bringing that up.

And Kelcea! or Kelsea! I don't remember which, but that's okay! I kind of miss this place, man. I don't think anyone here remembers me, and no one looks familiar anymore. Except you, and Atenora and Efogoto and, J, of course. Not that I've thoroughly searched, I've just read this thread, so...


Last thing is just a comment to the mods: Is there a better way of organizing this baby? I mean, I get the customary "new book, giant incomprehensible thread where we all throw ideas at eachother like food," but it would be a lot easier to navigate if we were to split stuff up. Like a poison darts thread, and a which-manager is which thread, and a taxi-driver thread, or something. Although I suppose it's too late... And that usually gets organized once we've all collected our thoughts...

Thread in reference to Swans.

It's either, neggie. I've missed you. Did Shopper's Drug Mart have TPP?

In reference to the organization: This thread is just the basic discussion thread for people to post their ideas about The Penultimate Peril. I'm sure we'll have more comprehensive threads after everyone has had a chance to read TPP.

[Celinra]

negativenine said:

I don't think anyone here remembers me, and no one looks familiar anymore. Except you, and Atenora and Efogoto and, J, of course.

*ahem*
Sure, I finally type up the soap opera that you co-created, and I'm unrecognized.


On topic, I've had a thought: Can we be positive that the Baudelaire children were alive the night the parents saw the opera? As far as I can see, it doesn't say specifically that, for example, the parents came home and told them about it. For all we know, the children saw the poster, asked about it, and the parents recounted the time that they were going to the opera but their car wouldn't start, so they called a taxi, etc.

Oh, and also, a taxi driver is one of the VFD disguises, if I recall correctly. Perhaps thr driver who took them to the opera was not by chance, but was actually a volunteer taking them to complete a mission or something, under the pretext of their car having broken down.

[negativenine]

I'm sorry, Celinra. I most certainly remember you and you most certainly remember me. So I am a terrible person for neglecting to mention you, I guess. And I'm about to read the soap opera... it shall be awesome.

I like the mission-rather-than opera idea... I need to re-read this baby.

[Linda Rhaldeen]

Here's the catalog for Hotel Denouement:
000 – Employees’ quarters
025 – Laundry room
100’s – Philosophy and psychology
101 – Reception desk (theory of philosophy)
118 – Elevators (force and energy)
121 – Epistemology, theories of knowledge, Baudelaires locked here
123 – Shiny green wood floor
128 – Large wooden bench
131 – Fountain
135 – Couches (dreams and mysteries)
152 – Grand piano
165 – The room Olaf is locked up in
168 – Newsstand
174 – Mr. Poe’s room
175 – Concierge desk (ethics of recreation and leisure)
176 – An enormous woman stands by this number and calls a man’s name
178 – Villain requests sugar in coffee here
200’s – Religion (contains church, cathedral, chapel, synagogue, mosque, temple, shrine, and shuffleboard court)
296 – cranky rabbi (Hebrew mirror reading takes place here)
300’s – Social sciences (contains ballrooms and meeting rooms)
371 – Educational guests
400’s – Languages (for foreigners to stay)
469 – Portugese guests
500’s – Mathematics and Science
547 – Organic chemicals
594 – Family stays here along with several tanks of tropical fish
600’s – Technology
700’s – Arts
786 – Musical instruments and concertinas
792 – Theater (stage presentations)
800’s – Literature and rhetoric
831 – German poetry
954 – Hal’s Indian restaurant
999 – Astronomy tower
unmarked – Rooftop sunbathing salon

[PJ]

negativenine said:

And Kelcea! or Kelsea! I don't remember which, but that's okay! I kind of miss this place, man. I don't think anyone here remembers me, and no one looks familiar anymore. Except you, and Atenora and Efogoto and, J, of course. Not that I've thoroughly searched, I've just read this thread, so...

I remember you. Or, at least, your avatar.

celinra said:

On topic, I've had a thought: Can we be positive that the Baudelaire children were alive the night the parents saw the opera? As far as I can see, it doesn't say specifically that, for example, the parents came home and told them about it. For all we know, the children saw the poster, asked about it, and the parents recounted the time that they were going to the opera but their car wouldn't start, so they called a taxi, etc.

Your right, actually, though it is certainly implied that the children were there when it happened. I mean, they would have said "Our parents once told us a story in which they..." and so on. It's possible, but rather unlikely.

[Antenora]

I remember you, Neggie; you did cool fan-art.

Linda, thanks for the list. Let's see what each room corresponds to in the original system. (excluding those explained in your list)

000 Generalities
025 Library operations
123 Determinism & indeterminism
128 Humankind
131 Occult methods for achieving well-being
152 Perception, movement, emotions, drives
165 Fallacies & sources of error
168 Argument & persuasion
174 Economic & professional ethics
176 Ethics of sex & reproduction
178 Ethics of consumption
371 School management; special education
594 Mollusca & Molluscoidea
954 General history of Asia South Asia India
999 Extraterrestrial worlds

[hobo2312]

"You've always just been out of my grasp, from the moment Mr. Poe took you away from the theatre in his car to the moment Kit Snicket took you through the hedges in her taxi." - Justice Strauss.

Does anyone else think that this implies that Justice Strauss was in the taxi following Kit at the beginning?

Also, Lemony twice mentions needing another series of thirteen books to fully explain certain events - once about the taxi-driver, another about the woman with hair but no beard. Is this a clue to an upcoming series, or just a running joke?

[lauren]

good observation frommars I didn't make that taxi connection...however i don't think daniel is going to write any of those other series suggested, it was probably just a running joke

[Dante]

I'm sure I said somewhere that I thought Justice Strauss was in the taxi following Kit - and RockSunner mentioned Lemony saying something somewhere about being in a taxi and having to turn around to follow another taxi that went through some hedges. Where was that, precisely?

It's interesting to hear that TPP might be the longest of all the books. I guess that quite a lot of things do happen in it, but on the other hand, we don't get many answers - just more questions.

PJ, Fernald was about to say something about the Baudelaire parents in a context which implied that he was going to mention something villainous they did.

"Just as the poison of a deadly fungus can be the source of some wonderful medicines, someone like Jacques Snicket can do something villainous, and someone like Count Olaf can do something noble. Even your parents–”

In the context, it seems like they were either noble people who did something villainous, or villainous people who did something noble. If Count Olaf believes (whether correctly or not) that the Baudelaire parents murdered his own parents, then he probably told his troupe about it, if they didn't know themselves.

I don't think the man in the first picture closely resembles the man in the Chapter Ten picture, but the description of the Chapter Ten man more fits the first picture man than the Chapter Ten picture man. So I'm willing to believe that they're the same person, although I doubt it's of any real relevance.

Monty's reptile collection had some frogs and toads in it, if I recall correctly, and they would have been trained along with the rest of the collection - so I think that the frogs in the pond might have been as well. Guarding the rooms, perhaps? Warning systems of some sort?

Neglect, I remember you - or possibly I just remember seeing your posts a lot in old threads.

[Antenora]

Thanks for finding that TGG quote, Dante. It further confirms what's implied in Book 12.

hobofrommars said:

Also, Lemony twice mentions needing another series of thirteen books to fully explain certain events - once about the taxi-driver, another about the woman with hair but no beard. Is this a clue to an upcoming series, or just a running joke?

It's more likely a running joke, I think. But the matter might be dealt with in one of the upcoming add-on books(The Notorious Notations, or something we haven't heard of yet).

Edit: Monty did have toads--one that looked like an owl and one that looked like a cathedral, and probably others. The owlish and cathedral-like ones would be good for secret missions, blending in with the surroundings. Frogs and toads in general could be trained to croak as a signal if there was a fire, or something.

[Jacques the Environmentalist]

Could the frogs have been croaking because of the arrival (and shooting) of the crows?
I wonder what cocktail party Lemony was referring to when he said circumstances might require one to curl up under the coffee table of a notorious villain and hope no one at the cocktail party notices the trembling backgammon set.

[SnicketFires]

Monty also had the dissonance toad that could imitate human speech in a gravelly voice. I know we had a thread on it somewhere, but when I searched, I couldn't find it.