OFFICIAL BOOK TWELVE DICUSSION THREAD.

[liamlvr]

Di ne1 notice the Klaus knows where the sugar bowl is? As he open the door he says,"Because it isnt there"

[PJ]

mynamesjacques said:

Who says Jacques and Kit were identical ages? In my family my brother is 12 years younger than me, you can't prove that Kit and Jacques were BOTH 4 during the schism's outbreak. Yes the timing is confusing, I've had to think about too many different contrasting scenarios and I still haven't figured it out... I know the possiblity of them being twins is considered but is it absolute?

They are twins. One, the family tree has them almost growing out of each other, and two it says so in one of the asoue calendars.

And re-read the transcript; no four year old is that educated. And Lemony is also there, so he would have to be at least 9 months younger than Jacques, so, somehow, L seems a lot more intellectuel than a 3 year old has any right to be.

[Dante]

redlightgrnlight said:

[Stuff about the cover]

Yes, you're probably right. It's just that Handler never really goes into much physical detail of his characters, so if somebody bears even a slight resemblance to a character, then we jump to make a connection. Also, Helquist's illustration of Kit in Chapter Two does make her look rather like the woman on the front cover.

Third, TGG p. 178 - "And a small, ceramic bowl, with a tight-fitting lid to keep something important inside, might be difficult to find in a laundry room of an enormous hotel, particularly if there were a terrible villain nearby, making you feel nervous and distracted." Did Dewey lie, and the sugar bowl was in the laundry room, and Lemony retrived it before Klaus opened the door, and it wasn't in the taxi seat? That may be a stretch, but it's possible.

As it happens, we've just started discussing that here.

Basically, I think that the timeline of the schism and such is now completely messed up. Maybe "recent" refers to "relatively recent." The organisation has been in existence for centuries, probably, so around thirty years ago would be relatively recent, and we don't even know when that letter was written. If Olaf's about twenty years older than the Snickets - he was old enough to burn down the Denouement home when they, Kit and Jacques were just four - then he could have started the schism, just not in that particular meeting. He could, alternatively, be responsible for this generation's worsening of the schism. It could just be another of the chronological inconsistencies that the series is riddled with, like woodworm in the figurehead of a vital ship.

[lauren]

liamlvr said:

Di ne1 notice the Klaus knows where the sugar bowl is? As he open the door he says,"Because it isnt there"

I can't remember where he said it but he explained that it was at the bottom of the lake

[jcgsebald]

I am still wondering where the sugar bowl is.

[Snicket89]

Yes me too but there are some who speculate that it is in the underwater library of DD's...but who knows at this point

[tennisguru]

I'm pretty sure that on one of the last pages of the book, Klaus realizes that Dewey had Sunny put the V. Fastened Door for a decoy because the sugar bowl fell in the pond. Right?

[jman]

I think that's it.

[Snicket89]

Yep I is agreeing ^_^

[ineedyourhelp]

Yea, thats exactly what happened, and i dont think theyll ever get the sugar bowl, it will lay hidden in the pond forever.

[karol1096]

i disagree that they will never get the sugar bowl...handler cannot keep sucha a thing a secret forever...we will kill him if he does!!!!!...but anyway...i was just wondering if there is any hard eveidence to prove that one of the baudlaire parents IS dead...i mean has it been proven that they aren't alive?...plz give me some feed back on this....also, i disagree that Kit is not on the cover..the pics on CH2 adn the cover look IDENTCAL!!!!..same jacket,hair,glasses it fits..im sorry if u disagree but ure WRONG if u do...furthermore, i believe that the next book will NOT take place on an island but instead just visit it shortly and then return to Briny Beach and go into the sshamh wuith hector...once thye are up on it...they will find out quite a bit of info from the Quagmires(hence we will too) because this is the only reasonable source the baudlaires will get info considerign everyone else doesnt give them any help whatsoever...except for DEwey but that ended quickly enough....the underwater catalog will b the key of B13 and the baudlaires will sepnd most of their time searching how to get to it and deciphering it...thats my piece...post if u disagree. agree or just wanna talk more about it

[redlightgrnlight]

The picture in Ch. 2 only shows a girl with her hair tied up with a pair of pencils. The gown is different from the cover (striped robe v. non-striped robe), the glasses are different (sunglasses v. stylish), the collar is different. The hair is also in a different style - the cover shows the hair parted, with a wisp sticking out, and a comb in it; the Ch. 2 picture shows the hair pulled back entirely, and no comb. The pictures are impossible to match except to say that both have a pair of wood-based sticks in them, which is precisely why everyone in the first place connected Kit with the front cover. Additionally, that doesn't explain why she, of all the cover figures, is the only one identifiable

[whoopi]

I think there was a reference in TPP about Lemony making a mistake on whether a letter was "R" or "K" and it proved to be either fatal or almost fatal (I'm going only on memory here, so I don't yell at me for getting some things wrong). I was skimming through threads in Conflicting Conjectures and there was some theory about R or K being traitors, and it's going on TCC when Violet found a photograph that had one of those letters on the back of it. If anybody can help me out here please do.
P.S. I wrote a whole long post on Page 18 of this thread and not one person even looked at it or commented (as if there's some kind of conspiracy or something, hmmm..... I'm joking- I don't have that that low of a self-esteem, but still just take a sec and answer my question or tell me where to post it where it would fit more [and please don't don't say my rear end])

[Jacques the Environmentalist]

I think you guys are looking WAY too much into the cover pictures, why would it not be Kit? The event depicted in taa, never happened, when did we ever see Nero in the cafeteria? I think Handler would just laugh at you for debating a small matter so fiercely with such ridiculously specific evidence about a couple of DRAWINGS.
Anyway, I think the sugarbowl is in possession of VFD seeing as Lemony was describing the car and indicated an important object in the passeger seat "Still damp from its recent hiding place."
The sugarbowl, hiding place being the pond.
And I agree with Dante that the schism being recent is all relative, the organization is centuries old and perhaps 20 or so years isn't too much in that kind of history. And I REALLY hope we do see the catalog in book 13 as well as the sshamh.

[ineedyourhelp]

Going onto book 13 discussion. Anyone got any ideas for the title?

i myself think it will be The Fatal Finale