OFFICIAL BOOK TWELVE DICUSSION THREAD.

[whoopi]

Going on Ineedyourhelp- This is called the Book Twelve discussion thread not to raise any problems.

But anyway, if you wikipedia The Penultimate Peril you get a lot of interested things by Plot Notes and Interesting Facts.

[Deleted]

so bertrand was thier father. this makes it more likely that beatrice was thier mother. cuase of the b's

[Sugary Snicket]

The B's mean nothing. Snicket wanted to call their father Bertrand, so what?

[Dante]

In the BBRE notes, then Snicket notes that lions are named after their trainers. He says that he doesn't know if the lion on the wall of Count Olaf's home is named "Bertrand" or "Beatrice." This implies that Bertrand, the Baudelaire father, trained lions, as did Beatrice. If they were both lion-trainers, then that link between them could be taken as suggesting that they were close partners, and they could have gotten married. It's pretty weak, but with all the conflicting evidence on Beatrice's identity, then you need to pick up any piece of evidence you can get.

[Antenora]

I personally suspect that Beatrice might be the identical twin of the Baudelaire mother, therefore an aunt to the children and an associate of Bertrand. Their being twins would account for Violet's possible remy butt to her, and the whistling-with-a-mouthful-of-crackers thing(although that might be a VFD code). I think a lot of the evidence also works out if Beatrice is Bertrand's sister, and a friend of the Baudelaire mother.

[jman]

In response to karol1096, in TSS Lemony says that Jacques Snicket and the Baudelaire Dad are dead. (Bertrand)

[lauren]

I don't like the idea of Beatrice and the Baud mum being indentical twins....there are too many siblings of the same age in the books...it is a small world (quote the baudelaires) but can it really be so small that another set of siblings of the same age enter the Baudelaires lives?? I was actually quite annoyed that Lemony made a second group of triplets....

[Antenora]

Sets of three siblings are a running theme of Snicket's books, and I wouldn't be surprized if either or both of the Baudelaire parents belonged to such a family. If Bertrand and Beatrice are twins, there could be a parallel to the Snicket siblings--a set of twins and a younger sibling.

[A. the Returned]

Ok so I finished my book a while back, only a couple days after it came out but my parents have been away and I at my grandparents, without internet access. This is a very long thread and rather time consuming to read from beginning to end.
I loved this book, it's probably my favourite. The Kit pregnant thing was a huge surprise.
Just a few things I noticed that I don't think have been mentioned much. Pg 33. "I've scarcely looked at these maps, poems and blueprints that Charles sent me..." I assume this refers to the Charles who is partners with Sir. If this is true we know that the lumber from Lucky Smells was used in the construction of many of VFD's mansions. Thus these blueprints Charles sent her could be of VFD mansions but whether they belong to the good or bad side of the schism is uncertain.
The olaf's parents murder I assumed for him to be considered an orphan as such would have made him young. This is reinforced by the evidence of VFD recruiting neophytes whose parents have perished, therefore it would have been difficult for the Baudelaire parents to murder them especially while the children remember the night. The poison darts thing I thought to be more of a coinsidence or something fun to speculate but seems implausible without differing definitions or major timing inconsitencies.
Also I do think that Dewey, Ernest and Frank are D,E,F from the LSUA family tree although assuming that Dewey is the afther of Kit's baby as is definately implied it couldn't be a family tree at least as moral laws satnd in relation to intercousin relationships. Also Perhaps the B could be Bertrand instead of Beatrice as otherwise speculated.
Well that's it for now.

[lauren]

tocuna said:

Sets of three siblings are a running theme of Snicket's books, and I wouldn't be surprized if either or both of the Baudelaire parents belonged to such a family. If Bertrand and Beatrice are twins, there could be a parallel to the Snicket siblings--a set of twins and a younger sibling.

yeah I wouldn't find it surprising but I would find it annoying

[Sixteen]

Okay, I think I realised the significance of the triptych.

On the first "Not A Chapter" page, the pictures sre not in chronological order (man, drill, cable). This is to emphasise the fact that you can read the next three chapters in any order.
On the second "Not A Chapter" page they are in chronnological order to emphasise the return to sequential chapters.

Why they chose this particular sequence of events, I don't know.
Why they gave us it on TNN.com , I don't know.
But I do know why it's there.

[Dante]

I agree with you, Sixteen. And they probably chose that sequence because nothing else really fitted... And they probably put it on TheNamelessNovel.com because it was actually very interesting, but gave away nothing (much like Mystery the First, in fact). I actually really like those pictures, now. They're some of my favourites in the whole book.

[Antenora]

That's a good interpretation, Sixteen. And the order of the pictures in their second appearance makes sense--the woman would have ridden in the elevator in disguise, then gotten out and drilled through the wall, then looked in at the cable.

[Snicket89]

But who is the woman...or who do we suspect she is?

[Antenora]

She looks slightly like the illustrations of Kit, but really, she could be anyone. And it's hard to say how her actions relate to the plot.