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Post by Celinra on Apr 9, 2004 9:03:31 GMT -5
It goes both ways, though. Using your bagel analogy, say some of the people in that group really liked raisens in their bagel (I don't, but I digress). Then, because of the person who didn't like them, they all got taken out, and all that was available was plain bagels. The best thing to do, it seems, would be to give a choice: Let people eat the raisen bagels if they want, or let them not have the raisens and just eat the plain bagel, but don't make it so that anyone has to eat the thing they don't want to.
This is why, in my opinion, it shouldn't be taken out, but no one should be forced to say it.
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Post by JeromeSqualor on Apr 9, 2004 9:42:03 GMT -5
Wow... I missed a lot... Need to come on here more....
I agree with what mainly everybody has been saying... It should not be taken out, but just because it is still in thepledge, doesn't mean that people have to say it... In my school, you don't have to even stand up during it, and the teacher will not even notice... I think it is just another small step that athiest are trying to take, helping them get towards their ultimate goal of banishing God from everything... Pretty soon God will be illegal to believe in... Why can't they just believe what they believe and be happy with that? And I also agree with what some one else said... You already are not aloud to pray in public schools, nor talk about God, so what is the big point of taking two simple words (the only God we have left in school) out of our pledge? It's sickening...
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Post by Madamluna on Apr 9, 2004 9:59:24 GMT -5
It goes both ways, though. Using your bagel analogy, say some of the people in that group really liked raisens in their bagel (I don't, but I digress). Then, because of the person who didn't like them, they all got taken out, and all that was available was plain bagels. The best thing to do, it seems, would be to give a choice: Let people eat the raisen bagels if they want, or let them not have the raisens and just eat the plain bagel, but don't make it so that anyone has to eat the thing they don't want to. This is why, in my opinion, it shouldn't be taken out, but no one should be forced to say it. Yeah, but my bagel analogy doesn't include the fact that everyone who believes in the Christian God can still believe in the Christian God if they don't say the pledge. What they SHOULD do is give everyone who wants them raisin bagels and the people who don't want raisin bagels get everything-bagels, but I'm not entirely sure how the real-life equivalent of that would work. |
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Luigi
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Post by Luigi on Apr 9, 2004 12:07:28 GMT -5
Bring your own bagel. Buy it somewhere else. But I digress.
You'd been taking away people's rights if you take away the two words. I believe in no prayer in school, no God in the government and no religion in my head. But people should be allowed to say the two words and people should be allowed not to--don't say it. And if you're worried about being considered unpatriotic, don't make a big fancy show of it. If you want to take a stand yourself, instead of going to the gov't, then make a point. It's hard to notice you're not saying two words, but sit down when you finish saying the pledge which should be earlier then the other kids. They'll notice. If not the first day, then the next, or the next, or the next...
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Luigi
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Post by Luigi on Apr 9, 2004 12:10:50 GMT -5
Let me do another analogy.
There's a game on the playground that kids are playing that you hate but the teachers say you should play. The kids love it, everyone but you. Nothing is stopping you from sitting out except for being taunted by your classmates for being "different". (Kids taunt you for the stupidest things). Or you can go to the teacher and banning it for everyone, and everyone except you loves the game.
Imagine if you take the stand and all of a sudden, UG is banned....haha, they'll blame YOU. God, kids are such idiots...
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Post by JeromeSqualor on Apr 9, 2004 14:00:50 GMT -5
Exactly, they'll blame you, because it will, indeed, be your fault...
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Luigi
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Post by Luigi on Apr 9, 2004 14:03:15 GMT -5
No, it would be an overzealous Atheist's fault.
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Post by xangelkimzx on Apr 9, 2004 14:53:13 GMT -5
This is confusing, slow it down please!
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Post by JeromeSqualor on Apr 9, 2004 15:06:10 GMT -5
No, it would be an overzealous Atheist's fault. That is what I meant... |
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Antenora
Detriment Deleter 
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Put down that harpoon gun, in the name of these wonderful birds!
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Post by Antenora on Apr 9, 2004 15:19:27 GMT -5
You all have made good points.
At my school, after the Columbia space shuttle disaster we had a moment of silence to pray as we chose to, or not at all. It's often said that as long as there are pop quizzes there will be prayer in schools. I'm against mandatory prayer in schools, but I don't think it should be forbidden. I'm rather neutral on a lot of issues.
I change "under God" in the pledge, to "many gods", and no one has noticed. It has the same syllable count, and I say the pledge quietly. If the teacher noticed, I don't know what she'd do. Do you think that my little modification is acceptable?
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Post by JeromeSqualor on Apr 9, 2004 15:22:46 GMT -5
Sure, you are not forced to say it the right way...
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Luigi
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Post by Luigi on Apr 9, 2004 16:16:16 GMT -5
Yes, but just because I'm an Atheist doesn't mean I'm hell-bent on getting UG out of the POA |
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Luigi
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Post by Luigi on Apr 9, 2004 16:17:16 GMT -5
This is confusing, slow it down please! Are you serious? |
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Post by JeromeSqualor on Apr 9, 2004 16:20:31 GMT -5
J, you are an athiest? Why?
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Luigi
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Post by Luigi on Apr 9, 2004 16:29:37 GMT -5
Atheist-Agnostic. I don't want to say there is no God but there's a ton of evidence against it. I don't see the difference between God and the tooth fairy as there is an equal amount of proof to both's existance, for some reason, one prevails over the other. Religion was invented as a poor excuse for science, to explain things that could not be explained but now they can be. It's also a nice way to gain control over people. The world of nebulas and atoms is more believable than the world where things happen "because". Most religious people put up a very weak fight, that God made science to test us, you have to have faith, etc, etc. Proof denies faith, faith denies existance, blah blah blah.
Anyway, it's not a horrible thing to think a little and be Atheist. Most people gasp when I tell them I am. Why? I must be a horrible, cold-hearted person to not believe? My own mum flipped out and didn't talk to me for 2 days, saying "you shouldn't, nothing bad happened in your life." Atheism is so misunderstood.
Anyway, I don't WANT to believe in a God who puts in you in a place of torture for having a different belief. I don't think we could fathom God or anything about God and it's a futile attempt to try to.
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