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Post by Leanora Crowe on Oct 8, 2010 13:43:00 GMT -5
Alright, I have a few questions about the Duchess of Winnipeg. First of all, does anyone know what "R" stands for? Is that her first name, or what? Also, Is it possible that she is the same person as Olivia Caliban/Madame Lulu? If not, could it be that the person who says they are the Duchess R in the UA, who Lemony believes to be an impostor, is actually Olivia? I was just wondering all this and thought someone on here might be able to answer my questions.  |
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Post by Dante on Oct 8, 2010 14:22:31 GMT -5
Hi Leonora,
Ideally, a thread like this would be placed in the Cheerless Characters sub-board, which can be found under Sardonic Series. Foreboding Feedback is for questions about the forum itself, not about the series. I'm sure a moderator will move this thread to the appropriate location fairly soon, though, so don't worry about it.
Secondly, there is little doubt that Olivia and the Duchess are separate individuals; although I can't think of any explicit contradictions to this, the circumstantial evidence leaves little doubt that the two are distinct characters - which is to say that they have separate lives, separate backstories, separate names and quite frankly are never associated with each other. And on similar lines, Olivia would seem to have had little motive to impersonate the Duchess in writing to Lemony; she probably remembers V.F.D.'s secrets well enough to not make the sort of errors that letter does, anyway.
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Post by Leanora Crowe on Oct 8, 2010 14:59:03 GMT -5
Oh, thanks for your help, Dante, and sorry about putting this in the wrong place. I just can't get it right apparently.
I know Olivia is Thursday's sister, but Does anyone actually know the Duchess's backstory?
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Post by Hermes on Oct 8, 2010 15:10:27 GMT -5
I think it's unlikely that R is the same as Olivia, since she already has two names - Olivia and Lulu - and her having a third would be very confusing. Also, one of the letters in TBL refers both to R and to O, known as L, as two different people, both of whom are with Lemony at the Daily Punctilio while Beatrice is on tour.
We do know a bit about the Duchess's background - her mother is metioned in TBL, and Ishmael refers to her family, in which the ring was handed down from one generation to another.
Whether Olivia is impersonating the Duchess - well, it's possible. I had always supposed that letter was written after the events of ASOUE, but if we take the 'O is with me' clue seriously it must have been at the same time, as after that O was dead. Perhaps she got some details wrong because she was tired, as the Duchess suggested might happen. And it's not quite true there's no connection between them - besides the connection through TBL, she has a letter addressed to the Duchess in her collection.
(One thing I do think possible is that the Duchess is the same person as Madam di Lustro.)
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Post by Dante on Oct 8, 2010 16:30:10 GMT -5
Oh, thanks for your help, Dante, and sorry about putting this in the wrong place. I just can't get it right apparently. If you have any questions or concerns, you can PM me any time and I'll get back to you as soon as possible. And it's not quite true there's no connection between them - besides the connection through TBL, she has a letter addressed to the Duchess in her collection. I discarded that as evidence because the letter wasn't explicitly from Olivia (as I thought I remembered it being), and so it's not proof that the two aren't the same person. Didn't occur to me that it could therefore be evidence that the two are the same person - but Olivia has a lot of information that she's not meant to have. In any case, though, I'd like to see a possible motive for Olivia to disguise herself as R. in writing to Snicket. Admittedly, this is difficult, because it's not clear why the letter was written at all. (And by the way, I don't take seriously the supposed coded message, but that's a matter for another thread.) Actually, I'm feeling generous, I'll give you one. Jacques once visited Olivia to ask if Lemony was alive. Writing the letter might've been a way to sound him out. Do I believe this theory? No. |
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Post by Invisible on Oct 18, 2010 12:18:41 GMT -5
Raise your hand if you support the Lemony/R pairing. *raises hand*
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Post by Hermes on Oct 19, 2010 8:03:39 GMT -5
Raise your hand if you support the Lemony/R pairing. *raises hand* I don't think he will ever get over Beatrice. Besides, I like to see the Duchess as gay. |
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Post by Invisible on Oct 19, 2010 8:15:06 GMT -5
I've been supporting the pairing since last year. They're just so cute together! ;D Anyway, in my ficverse, R has a crush on Lemony but he doesn't return her feelings  |
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Post by Leanora Crowe on Oct 21, 2010 8:49:40 GMT -5
Raise your hand if you support the Lemony/R pairing. *raises hand* I don't think he will ever get over Beatrice. Besides, I like to see the Duchess as gay. I agree that Lemony will most likely never get over Beatrice, but where in the world do you get the gay Duchess idea from? |
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Post by Hermes on Oct 21, 2010 9:04:41 GMT -5
I agree that Lemony will most likely never get over Beatrice, but where in the world do you get the gay Duchess idea from? I didn't say it was canon, just that I like to think of her that way. But I think it fits in neatly, because it would explain her giving up her ring, which had passed from mother to daughter for generations - she would have known she wouldn't have children. And perhaps she had a crush on Beatrice. |
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Post by Dante on Oct 21, 2010 10:08:55 GMT -5
You neglected to note Lemony's hypothetical reference in TBL LS to BB #5 to the possibility of Beatrice marrying R. Purely hypothetical, of course, but it does introduce the idea of R. being gay.
On the other hand, R. loving Lemony was an idea I've also had, although again, I don't think he'll ever get over Beatrice. That would be R.'s tragedy.
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Post by Hermes on Oct 21, 2010 11:39:35 GMT -5
You neglected to note Lemony's hypothetical reference in TBL LS to BB #5 to the possibility of Beatrice marrying R. Purely hypothetical, of course, but it does introduce the idea of R. being gay. Very true, though I see that as basically a statement by Handler in favour of gay marriage ('I'm afraid it will be quite some time....'). |
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Post by Invisible on Oct 21, 2010 12:29:46 GMT -5
In my ficverse, Tony is gay. Mrs. Bass WAS straight but turned gay later on in life. And Count Olaf is bisexual. But because of he's only dated women, I don't think I've mentioned it in my fanfiction  |
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Post by Dante on Oct 21, 2010 13:00:48 GMT -5
...Tony as in, Queen Debbie and Her Boyfriend Tony? I guess that explains why their relationship didn't work out...
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Post by Invisible on Oct 21, 2010 13:33:18 GMT -5
Oh, no. Tony as in the Person of Indetermined Gender.
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