Duchess of Winnipeg Discussion

[Optimism is my Phil-osophy]

There's a character in Ramona called Beatrice, isn't there? I bought this book, but I never read it.

[the panopticountolaf]

There is! In addition, the V.F.D. Librarian (the one with the odd clothing who attempts to contact Carmelita) first appears as a very minor character in the Ramona series and then was retconned into V.F.D. by DH.

[R.]

I didn’t think that Ramona Quimby was a proper member, but that coming from you I will have to accept it as canonical. Tell me, Dante, what about the other books mentioned? Was Miss Honey from Matilda actually a volunteer recruiting the titular child prodigy?

[Dante]

No evidence has been presented. The Ramona Quimby conjecture is simply an interpretation, based on there being two R.s in the transcript and one of them giving their age as nine years old.

[the panopticountolaf]

The chances of Ramona being at the Committee meeting are very low; Cleary’s books end with Ramona having just turned ten. With each book in that series taking place roughly one year after the last, there’s little to no time for Ramona to be taken in by V.F.D, get her training, become such a trusted member that she is allowed to join a Committee at age nine, AND go to a regular school, spend time with her family, etc. The worlds of Cleary and Handler do collide, but I seriously doubt that Ramona is one of the R.s in that transcript.

[Optimism is my Phil-osophy]

Not wanting to argue either for or against, I just want to point out that at the construction committee meeting, there were certainly at least a few children. And one of the children was a girl called just R. And that girl claims to be 9 years old. But whether this girl is the Duchess of Winnipeg or not ... I would say no. Now I will argue. There are two people named "R" in the meeting. One of them gives a speech right after the 9 year old girl. In this speech, It's states about the possibility of someone forgetting the position of cars used to hide messages. This part of the speech was underlined and someone wrote that it would be a good idea. Years later the Duchess of Winnipeg evidently made a reference to this marking in her letter to Lemony, when she erred (in my opinion an intentional mistake to indicate something important) the position of the car in the Orion Observatory parking lot. So, if the 9 year old girl is Ramona, then the Duchess of Winnipeg is not Ramona.

[Hermes]

I agree that one of the R's at the building committee meeting is meant to be the Duchess, while the other is Ramona. It's true that this doesn't exactly fit the storyline of Ramona's own books, but I would take it that they are fictionalised to some extent from the point of view of the ASOUE world. I believe that Matilda Wormwood and Laura Ingalls are also present at the meeting - their stories are also fictionalised from the point of view of ASOUE, containing coded references to their recruitment.

Unfortunately there is no extract from Matilda in TUA, so we can't say exactly how her story fits in, but it does seem quite likely that Miss Honey was the recruiter.

Ramona also appears in The End , as an anarchic (which here means apple-loving) girl.

As for the Duchess, in my headcanon her family all have 'rose' names. The first Duchess was simply Rose, and others since then have been Rosamund, Rosalind, Rosemary, Rosanna etc.

[Optimism is my Phil-osophy]

Some historical possibilities could be Rouge, in honor of Fort Rouge in Winnipeg.

Or Rupert (Rupert Land)

Or Rhine, (Prince Rupert of the Rhine, Duke of Cumberland)

[counto]

Rouge Winnipeg?

Possibly, I would've thought R's real name was Rebecca as mentioned in the Masked Ball chapter in TCC

[Dante]

I am not aware of the name "Rebecca" ever appearing in ASoUE, and nor is there a masked ball chapter in TCC.

[Amber Rivers]

Oct 19, 2010 8:03:39 GMT -5 Hermes said:

Oct 18, 2010 12:18:41 GMT -5 Invisible said:

Raise your hand if you support the Lemony/R pairing. *raises hand*

I don't think he will ever get over Beatrice. Besides, I like to see the Duchess as gay.

Same. I bet they were both pining for Beatrice. 

[Amber Rivers]

Oct 8, 2010 13:43:00 GMT -5 Leanora Crowe said:

Alright, I have a few questions about the Duchess of Winnipeg. First of all, does anyone know what "R" stands for? Is that her first name, or what? Also, Is it possible that she is the same person as Olivia Caliban/Madame Lulu? If not, could it be that the person who says they are the Duchess R in the UA, who Lemony believes to be an impostor, is actually Olivia? I was just wondering all this and thought someone on here might be able to answer my questions.

I like the theory that says R means Ramona for the sole reason that it connects with the allusions that Handler use all throughout the series. Haha. But, I don't think Olivia and R are the same person. For instance, Olivia has been working as Madame Lulu as early as Reptile Room, if I am not mistaken. By this time, if the theory that Beatrice Baudelaire survived and found sanctuary in R's place is correct, then that will make the timeline a little haywire? 

[Optimism is my Phil-osophy]

I am one of the creators of the most advanced version of this theory. And in this more advanced version, the ball at which Lemony was captured took place a few years after the main events narrated in TRR. This does not make the timeline confusing if you accept that all of asoue's books were published after a few years of major events have occurred (with a gap of a few years between the publication of TWW and TAA).

Read about It asoue.proboards.com/thread/36354/change-lemonys-life-submitted-jean

[counto]

I've decided to name "R" as Ramona as tribute to the late author Beverly Cleary

[Glittery666]

I like the idea of R as Ramona.