Duchess of Winnipeg Discussion

[Dante]

Lemony's beloved and the Baudelaires' mother are the same person, so there are actually only two Beatrices.

[B.]

Actually there are three Beatrices.

1)Lemony's Love and also the Baudelaire's mom
2)The boat
3)Kit's daughter

[kkunz156]

Soo... She was cheating on the Baudalaire's father with Lemony?

[Dante]

Lemony and Beatrice were in love when they were young. Something that's never been identified for certain made her break off her relationship with Lemony. Some time afterward, she married Bertrand. The two relationships weren't simultaneous.

[Very Funky Disco]

Do you think her last name actually was "Winnipeg"? Especially since there was a mention made to the "Winnipeg fortune" in The Slippery Slope. Also, do you think she actually lived in Winnipeg, Manitoba? There isn't actually a Duchess of Winnipeg, but that could be one of the differences between the ASOUE Universe and "our" world.

[Dante]

Well, "Winnipeg" would take the place of the family surname, I think, in most aristocratic systems of this type. If they suddenly lost all rights to the title then they'd have to use their original surname but as it is I think that use of "Winnipeg" is accurate. And she should at least live near Winnipeg most of the time, although that doesn't seem to really apply to modern aristocrats, who don't often have anything to do with the place they're supposedly prince/count/duke of.

[Hermes]

She would be known as R- Winnipeg, but other members of her family would still use the family name (as, for instance, the Duke of Marlborough's family is called Churchill). In some aristocratic families the family name and the title are the same, but rarely for dukes. (The duke of Hamilton is the only one I can think of.)

I actually have a headcanon about their family name; it is Lamb. The reason for this is that there was in the 19th century a man called Charles Lamb (not the famous essayist) who kept a colony of guinea pigs on his father's estate, and wrote stories about them, in which they lived in an imaginary city called Winnipeg. I'm thinking the Duchess may be his descendant. He was the half-brother of Lord Eglinton, and persuaded him to organise the famous (or notorious) Eglinton tournament, a grand revival of mediaeval pageantry, which led to the Eglintons' becoming bankrupt. And the family name of Lord Eglinton? Montgomerie.

[friendofvfd]

Wow, Hermes that is so funny! I have actually thought about the possibility that Duchess R is gay too! Probably because like you said, when Snicket mentioned in TBL that he finds it sad that it will be a while until women are finally able to marry each-other. (which I think obviously reflects Daniel Handler's liberal views that he supports same-sex marriage) What's interesting is that out of all the characters, he choose "R" when making that same-sex reference. Which made me think that way. I've actually thought about writing a fanfic that has Duchess R and Sally Sebald (Gustav's sister) having a thing for each-other. I chose Sally since her last name is Sebald meaning she possibly has never married. Unless she did get married and kept her last name, who knows. So Sally might be gay too, for all we know. As a matter of fact, Snicket/Handler seems quite gay friendly, if you read close enough there are certain "clues" throughout the series including TBL and UA, there are possibly some references to same-sex relations. And in my opinion Sir and Charles seem to be quite more then just "business partners", but I think that's been discussed already.

By the way to LSWannaBe, I'm sorry but a person cannot "turn gay", you have to be born that way. Sexuality is not something you choose. It's not a "lifestyle". Besides I highly doubt a straight person just wakes up one morning and says to themselves, "you know, I think I'll have sex with one of my friends today who is the same gender/sex as I am", yeah.... no. Not likely. I don't know what your sexuality is of course, but assuming your straight, I really don't think you've ever had the urge to be sexual with someone of your same sex. Sorry, I had to get that off my chest, because I have gay/lesbian family members, and I'm protective of them. And to the other person who also thinks R is a gay, and referred to her as "gay/lesbian". Uh, that's the same thing; lesbian means: gay females.

[Charlie]

I just thought of something. Could R. not stand for "Ramona". She may be Ramona, and her sister Beatrice (as in the books). Maybe this is the reason for Lemony's closeness to the Duchess, that he was once set to marry her sister. Just a thought.

[Dante]

It's an interesting possibility, although of course there the flaw is in just how much we then have to carry over from Beverly Cleary's works - how does her aristocratic title come into that, for instance? Ramona is often identified with a character initialed "R." in the V.F.D. Building Committee meeting transcript in the U.A., but that also features another R. who is often, admittedly more for neatness's sake than anything else, considered to be the Duchess. And then we don't have any positive information linking Beatrice and R. - we know they were friends, we've heard a lot about both, wouldn't we possibly have heard if they were siblings? Actually, now that I think about it, this is probably disproved by The Beatrice Letters, LS to BB #4 (I think), in which Lemony reports on the death of the previous duchess and how R. will now take on the title. If R. and Beatrice were sisters, the previous duchess would also be Beatrice's mother and we would expect Lemony to make even the slightest reference to that - but he doesn't, at all. Kind of a shame, really, as it's not a bad idea, but there it is.

[Christmas Chief]

Sept 4, 2012 6:27:15 GMT -5 Dante said:

Actually, now that I think about it, this is probably disproved by The Beatrice Letters, LS to BB #4 (I think) in which Lemony reports on the death of the previous duchess and how R. will now take on the title. If R. and Beatrice were sisters, the previous duchess would also be Beatrice's mother and we would expect Lemony to make even the slightest reference to that - but he doesn't, at all.

Precisely, LS to BB #3, and there's a line that reads "Poor R.! I cannot imagine how sad she is to lose her mother." The pronouns give it away. That isn't to say R. can't stand for Ramona, but it would leave doubt as to who was the second R in the transcript.

[carmelita0cheryl]

so what does the R stand for again? Any ideas, pls?

[R.]

My personal headcanon is that it stands for Ramona, but I have seen pretty much every ‘R’ name imaginable.

[counto]

Ramona, is that a reference to the book character from Ramona by Beverly Clark?

[Dante]

The Ramona Quimby books by Beverly Clearly, yes; the U.A. openly alludes to it (though the Building Committee Transcript has been interpreted as showing that the Duchess R. and Ramona Quimby are separate individuals in the organisation).