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Post by Dante on Jan 7, 2013 6:59:07 GMT -5
Count Olaf being caught is the second ‘shock moment’ of the series. In fact, there is one per book after TEE TEE - The Baudelaire Mansion TVV - Count Olaf has been arrested/ Jacques Snicket THH - Snicket File TCC - Lulus Fortune Telling TSS - Quigley TGG - Fernald TPP - Dewey TE - Kit Snicket washes up on the Island And the chapters all seem about the same place (Around Chapters 5-7.) ASoUE is quite formula-driven, but that's one of the things I like about it. Although I think this formula's a bit weaker - I'd count Olaf's arrest / Jacques, the Snicket File, Quigley and Fernald as true shock twists, but the rest aren't quite such a big deal. They aren't "game-changing," if you like. Actually, the hook-handed man announcing in TCC that one of the Baudelaire parents is still alive would count, but still, some of these twists happen nearer the end than the middle. As we can see throughout the book, Hector is extremely skittish about the Council of Elders. I assume that he was simply too afraid to stand up for Jacques, just as he was too afraid to stand up for the Baudelaires later. Why Jacques didn't acknowledge Hector is another question - it's entirely conceivable that both considered the secrecy of Hector's volunteer identity to be paramount, and not something to be given away in public no matter what the circumstances. It's also possible that something will happen later in ATWQ to make Hector a much weaker person, just as happens to Lemony. Given that a lot of people will already have heard of volunteer fire departments, the possibility of it being that was never a remote one, and Handler gets steadily less subtle at hinting about it. I think that maybe we should consider V.F.D. to be "mysterious" without being "a mystery." |
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Post by Charlie on Jan 7, 2013 7:34:23 GMT -5
Why Jacques didn't acknowledge Hector is another question - it's entirely conceivable that both considered the secrecy of Hector's volunteer identity to be paramount, and not something to be given away in public no matter what the circumstances. It's also possible that something will happen later in ATWQ to make Hector a much weaker person, just as happens to Lemony. Or perhaps Jacques was considerate enough not to rat Hector out. Otherwise, Olaf would go and kill Hector as well |
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Post by Tryina Denouement on Jan 7, 2013 9:30:46 GMT -5
Or perhaps Jacques was considerate enough not to rat Hector out. Otherwise, Olaf would go and kill Hector as well Yeah probably |
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Post by MisterM on Jan 8, 2013 3:20:37 GMT -5
-Perhaps Jacques was on the opposite side of the schism He worked with Kit on the Snicket File though... --Chapter Eight-- Ah, Mob Psychology, As Seen In TVV, THH, TCC, TPP, And TE. Its interesting looking at it, as the End things turn out better than in the past., but the Baudelaires lose the argument. Am I the only person who is surprised at how long it take the Baudelaires to work out where the poems are coming from? |
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Post by Charlie on Jan 8, 2013 3:37:56 GMT -5
-Perhaps Jacques was on the opposite side of the schism He worked with Kit on the Snicket File though... I will bring Kitlaf to the table. Has she always been a good guy. Perhaps they were united by their siblinghood Am I the only person who is surprised at how long it takes the Baudelaires to work out where the poems are coming from? No. I wondered that too |
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Post by Ellie Spinelli on Jan 8, 2013 13:02:02 GMT -5
Sorry for the delay, I was away for the weekend, but just a quick note on chapter three...
Hector says 'my father was the handyman and his father was the handyman, and so on...'
Is this one of those things that changed as Handler developed the plot lines? From WCTBATH, and even from the UA I believe, I was under the impression that family businesses weren't really relevant for members of V.F.D., what with being kidnapped and later assigned to chaperones
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Post by Hermes on Jan 8, 2013 13:29:01 GMT -5
Well, we know of at least one VFD member who still works in her family 'business', the Duchess. I would guess that when the family has a long-standing connection with VFD, volunteers might well return to their family business and use it for a cover.
I think it likely that there is a long-standing connection between VFDevotees and VFDepartment - both because of the initials and because of a reference in a later book to carrier crows. I don't think the VFD crows can be regularly working as carrier crows for the other VFD, but perhaps the carrier crows were recruited from among them, and Hector's family was in charge of this. But I think it's quite likely the connection was broken at the schism, so that H. now has to keep his connection with VFD secret.
By the way, Dante, was it Hector you were thinking of when you said that when we saw the connection between ASOUE and ATWQ it would make us shudder?
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Post by Dante on Jan 8, 2013 14:45:33 GMT -5
By the way, Dante, was it Hector you were thinking of when you said that when we saw the connection between ASOUE and ATWQ it would make us shudder? I was thinking more of Lemony suggesting that his experiences in Stain'd would leave him frightened for the rest of his life. A lot to worry about there, but the same may well apply to Hector, assuming he's not a one-off cameo. |
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Post by Ellie Spinelli on Jan 8, 2013 19:33:23 GMT -5
Read the book this afternoon at work so I'm caught up and good to go. This was the first book I reread and I must say I enjoy Sunny's words just as much as I did when I first read the series. --Chapter Five, Six, and Seven -- I find it surprising the Baudelaires did not touch the eye to open the fountain when they were there the first me. it’s the sort of thing I would have done They weren't anywhere near the eye, it was Hector up on the ladder. Chapter six - concerning Hector's phobia - is it possible that he is no longer an active member of VFD? Maybe he shied away from any involvement with it? Similar to Josephine; something traumatic happened and left him unfit for the demands of an active volunteer. (Perhaps I'm mixing too much of the movie's Josephine into this) it's just hard to see how someone who still part of the more noble side of the schism can ever say something like, "Well, if you're breaking out now, I'd better go. I don't want to get in trouble. I just want to say that if you don't make it and you are burned at the stake, it was very nice making your acquaintance." -chapter ten All I have to say is if ATWQ attempts to justify this cowardice it better be a perfect explanation if I am ever to be capable of reconciling the two Hectors in my mind. Otherwise, it should be left alone so I can console myself with the vague "something terrible must have happened." Chapter seven/eight - I feel very inspired to draw the inside of the barn Chapter ten - suspend all disbelief, Violet's mortar-dissolver works. Just think, had there only been a timely rainstorm they would've been out so much faster. Again with Hector, I don't understand, if the Baudelaires were in the process of breaking out it would have been so much simpler to help them finish and escape together. Obviously he wasn't concerned about the townspeople noticing his absence so why sit around all afternoon instead of being useful? Chapter twelve - I like that they don't specify in which item from the In Auction the triplets were smuggled. A nice touch for anyone who read the books out of order. Chapter thirteen - "As the invention sailed toward the ground..." Then the next paragraph states, "it isn't designed to come back to the ground." So the hot air mobile home can raise and lower at the convenience of the storyline. Also, if the home needs several people to keep it running, what was Hector's plan before? Spend his whole life waiting for other people to come along? Best part of the book was the barn. Thank you Hermes for the clarification earlier. |
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Post by Charlie on Jan 8, 2013 22:10:26 GMT -5
Hey, you might be onto something in a couple of things. Firstly. I reckon Hector went through something awful in his life, that scarred him for life, and ostracised him from VFD. Maybe while ballooning over the ocean in search of the GU (If we suppose that this is infact what he is doing) he fell and was lost in the GU, traumatically for a while. Okay, something else you said. It needed more than just him to use it. Perhaps Hector was waiting for other fugitive members of VFD to arrive, like Quigley or Kit or somebody else (not really fugitive but whatever), but then they died or were kidnapped and couldn't be there to help (example, he was waiting for Gustav to come over after the Peru expedition, but he didn't) IDK
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Post by MisterM on Jan 9, 2013 3:43:32 GMT -5
I will bring Kitlaf to the table. Has she always been a good guy? Nice idea, but her story in TPP Would negate that, surely... ' Is this one of those things that changed as Handler developed the plot lines? It surely must be! Handler made an odd chocie when he chose Hector to appear in ATWQ… They weren't anywhere near the eye, it was Hector up on the ladder. The piont still stands though... In the books its never explictely stated josiephen was a VFD Member, only Ike. That I would prefer --Chapter Nine-- It’s a shame Dupin only makes his first apperance here. One of Olafs best disgiuses here, and I can picture it much easier than gunther. All I see when I think of him is the guy from friends. Now, I’ve just thought. Do Hector and Olaf know each other? It quite possible, if lemony and olaf were at VFD Traing together… |
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Post by Charlie on Jan 9, 2013 4:14:14 GMT -5
Hey, that is a point... probably. If so, it is possible that Hector has changed dramatically in appearance since Olaf last saw him. That is, if Dupin saw him at any point in the book (which I think he did)
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Post by Ellie Spinelli on Jan 9, 2013 23:35:50 GMT -5
Now, I’ve just thought. Do Hector and Olaf know each other? It quite possible, if lemony and olaf were at VFD Traing together… Or perhaps Jacques was considerate enough not to rat Hector out. Otherwise, Olaf would go and kill Hector as well I thought they should know each other, but I figured Olaf isn't concerned about Hector at all. Given that Hector passed up the perfect opportunity to expose Olaf and save the orphans, he never acted as any real impediment. It may be that Olaf is aware of whatever happened to make Hector the way he is. I'm sure that if Olaf ever considered the possibilty of Hector taking decisive action he would have killed him too. |
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Post by Dante on Jan 10, 2013 6:46:00 GMT -5
I would imagine that Olaf either has privileged knowledge of why Hector is no longer a threat to anyone, or felt too secure in his position and in his disguise to consider Hector a threat. He had a seemingly watertight case against suspicious outsiders in an extremely insular village, and Hector's more or less a nobody in V.F.D.; speaking up would probably only have gotten Hector in trouble as well.
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Post by MisterM on Jan 14, 2013 3:21:22 GMT -5
--Chapters Ten and Eleven --
And now for the third (and Im pretty sure, final) Ridiculous Baudelaire escape. I cant say whether I find this more or less ridiculous than the last two ’escapes’ because it’s just so… different But I find it more palatable.
I find it slightly, er, weird that Klaus only realises it is his birthday. It seems a little unlikely he wouldn’t remember. Violets is a bti more excusable, as the Baudelaires have been doing things non-stop since - well, now I suppose. And of course poor sunny never has the opportunity to celebrate her birthday. As I have always envisaged a quite large gap between each book and the next, plus the large amount of time the baudiraes spend at Prufprock prep, surely sunny should have a birthday at some point?
Inside these letters, the eye will see - Does this mean Handler now knows about VFD Being inside the eye? Oh, and when did handler decide the eye would be affiliate with the organization anyway. It would be cool if he say a vfd-logo style eye and thought hm, this looks the letters VFD. I could use that…
My copy of the book has been misprinted. I havent noted the page (and cant find my copy of the book). But the words are printed to far to one side. I miss about half of the last letter of each line. Its readable (and I only noticed it the previous time I read this book).
-- Chapters Twelve to Thirteen --
Note ; I still havent found my copy, but im using old notes of mine plus ive looked over the previous re-read so I can put something down
So, to recap the quagmires epic journey
TAA ; At Prufprock prep, kidnapped, smuggled OUT of the city dressed as dogs ( I think)
TEE ; Somehow back IN the city, only for fernald to drive them OUT of the city.
TVV ; ‘And he hid us for a while in the tower room of his terrible house’ So they go back IN the city, only to be taken OUT and hidden in fowl fountain in VFD.
Its like a fricking hokey-cokey
we could wrap the scrap of paper around its leg. - As Dante cleverly points out ; And what, can the Quagmires’ fingers reach out of the beak, then? They should’ve tried sticking their fingers out when the Baudelaires and Hector were cleaning the fountain, they might’ve been noticed and we could avoid most of the plot.
Dante hopefully wont mind if I use this ; A couple of necessary notes on this chapter illustration: The bottom-left page is clearly a map. At the bottom-right, the first page says “F” and could conceivably read in full “Fire” (people have argued this, although I’d be less certain); the second page on the lower-right is the bottom half of a page and shows a sum of money - $1,5XX, apparently. What’s written below it could be a signature. Directly above this, furthest top-left, is a piece of paper that clearly said “V.F.D.” across the whole page. Left of that is a torn notebook of which the only page visible appears to have a capital F. The notebook that’s been harpooned directly has a torn image of an eye which bears a greater resemblance to the V.F.D. insignia than any previous eye images do. Far left, a page beginning “D” which looks a lot more convincingly like “Dept” – if that’s what you’re looking for, anyway. Above it: “Count Olaf,” with a torn picture of Count Olaf. Directly above that, lowest down, a picture of a mansion fire, and by that, a page beginning “V” – looks nothing like “Volunteer,” though. The topmost torn page is illegible. Let’s presume that Helquist’s going purely off what he knows and doesn’t have any special information from Handler here. The page that appears to read something like “Depot” is just a lucky scribble. The map could well be of Count Olaf’s house or something like that, which the Quagmires would have had reason and opportunity to take down. It’s the paper with the monetary sum that interests me.
Oh, and green ballons - Hello VFD. May I take your coat?
“one of the lamps mistakenly delivered to Hal” – these never appear.
And so Book 7 is over. And that is it for the old format! The Baudelaire are on there own!
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