The 667 Dark Avenue Re-Read 2012

[Hermes]

There's no doubt Lemony thought there might have been a survivor of the Baudelaire fire; that might also explain the note on the Snicket File, if he wrote it. But this need not be the same as the survivor Sebald is talking about.

I think there is probably a theme here about wishful thinking; the 'survivor of the fire' motif is introduced in THH, which begins with the thought that picturing something does not make it so. At one time the Baudelaires hoped their parents might still be alive, and Lemony hoped Beatrice might still be alive; but at the end they accept that they are dead.

It's also just struck me that while, during the series, it's reasonable to suspect that one of the Baudelaire parents is alive, we don't know at this point that the Baudelaire mother is Beatrice. When we realise that she is, it becomes clear that she must be dead, since Beatrice's death has been known from the very first page.

[prestorjohn]

We also don't really know why Lemony thought there was a survivor: we don't have page 8, which is where the evidence is supposedly listed.
I think the clue in BBRE about the fountain is worth noting; perhaps Lemony snooped around the fountain and found evidence of someone having gone into the tunnels below it (footprints, an open door or hatch, etc.) Perhaps he checked the ersatz elevator and found evidence someone had used the tunnel beneath the Baudelaire's home. It's hard to say what is really being referred to as "evidence."

[MisterM]

I will adress the Quigly storyline again in TSS

--Chapter Five--

If we assume this woman is kit (that is right, isn’t it?) Then, kit is wading into the Fountain of victorious Finance, which she also helped to build (Somehow. Sort Of).

People being allowed to bring sheep to the theatre - Ishmael?

Olaf acting as Shirley? Or is it a coincidence?

If the changes to the program were made in charcoal (presumably by Olaf), then is Olaf making the notes scribbled throughout the book? That could work…

Esmes maiden name is one of those things that is not important, but handler just wont tell us because he can!

--Chapter Six--

Drat being heard from the ship immediately reminds me of the man writing the notes in charcoal, buy Is it?

So, how old is lemony at the time of writing? How long ago was ATWQ?

--Chapter Seven--

Who was murdered? Or Was it an accident? Surely it cant be doctor Orwell, as Jacques states the schism is recent.. Also esme and Jerome aren’t married, which they are by the events of TBB.

This chapter has the most timeline issues. Lemony ahs just been fired, so if it is supposed to be orwells death, then, hm..

The French in The Veritable French Diners motto means - wait, for it - The world is quiet here.

Olaf currently prefers to be called S - Captain Sham? But, yet again, Esme and Jerome are married around the time of TBB, so, this cant work!!!

Jacques finding a couplet in a village mirrors TVV.

Ah, the famous stain, which seems to go hand in hand with ?1 it’s a Stain (Stain’d bu the sea) which is either ink (Ink Inc) or coffee (Black Cat Coffee.)

Okay, so maybe Jerome and esme weren’t married at the time of TBB, and they get married during or recently after the events of TWW. Fernald could then be installed as the doorman around TMM time, with olaf hoping that esme will adopt the orphans soon?

--Chapter Eight--

What happened to these two orphans?

Nor really much else to say on this chapter. Moving on!

--Chapter Nine--

And so this goes where in the timeline? Uh….

So, this man works for olaf, yet he is clearly unfamiliar with the Baudelaire orphans. Odd.

There is a lovely, rather cleaner version of the map, but I cant find it. Dante? Help?

The reptiles wanderings are inconsistent. One minute they are all over the countryside, but by the time of TSS, olaf (or the ‘bad side’ of VFD) seems to have them.

Unless the Library the associate visits at the start IS Prufprock Preps one, then the librarian must simply work in two different library’s,

And so Ink is sent out to see on the Prospero, which, I assume, sank, leading to ink arriving at the island.

Notes on the remaining chapters tomorrow.

[Dante]

The high-resolution, markless map. Courtesy of Terry Craig's The Snicket File Tumblr.

As for Chapter Seven, is it really accurate to say that all of the materials you find in each chapter take place at around the same time?

It's helpful to think of the U.A. as a hypertext. It has countless interconnections throughout it, and the material is designed to encourage connections which appear meaningful but which may be red herrings - or may not be. The material is arranged and juxtaposed in such a way as to create new meanings, or indeed to obscure some that are too obvious. There's evidence on the HarperCollins edition copyright page and in the index of the pages having been arranged in different ways during the editing process. That couldn't happen if there was only one true chronological order, could it?

[crono288]

There's also this version of the map, which Dante posted here!
Incidentally, were the markings manually removed in Terry Craig's version, or was there a version printed without them?

[Dante]

I don't know where a version without markings would have been printed, but removing the seam would be even harder. Maybe it was associated with one of the Lemony Snicket websites at some point - the version with the letters is much cleaner and seamless and could plausibly have been linked to something like a game on an official site.

[Hermes]

Feb 14, 2013 8:12:42 GMT -5 Dante said:

As for Chapter Seven, is it really accurate to say that all of the materials you find in each chapter take place at around the same time?

Clearly not generally - Chapter 1, for instance, deals with events that happened at the time of Lemony's 'death' and also in his infancy - but I think all the references which cause confusion in Ch. 7 come in two letters which must have been written about the same time (Jacques to Jerome replying to his invitation, and Jerome to Jacques wondering why he hasn't replied).

[ironic impostor]

Hey, I know I'm extremely late to the party, but I just joined and actually just wrapped up my own completely unrelated re-read. I wouldn't mind re-reading books 9-13 again though. Would you guys mind if I joined in the discussion on those books? I'm not completely sure I'll be a consistent contributor, as I have a lot of schoolwork piling up at the moment, but I'd do my best to add what I can to the conversation. And, on a completely unrelated note, what is BBRE an acronym for? I've gone through al the Snicket related materials I own but can't seem to decipher that specific acronym. But, anyway, would you guys mind if I joined the discussion for the remaining books?

[Charlie]

BBRE is the "Rare Edition" of TBB. It has notes by Lemony Snicket in the back, which allude to plot elements in the last books. I finally found a copy of TUA in my library (some of the pages are missing grr), so I shall be able to begin my read of it soon

[Ellie Spinelli]

Sorry for the absence, I've had visitors for the past week or so and extra work. Welcome to 667 ironic imposter! I'm not consistently here either so I have no criticism on that point.

I reread TUA in December, not realizing at the time how useful it would have been to have made notes. So I may just have to read through the notes posted in both rereads and make up a thread later for any unanswered questions. However, my contribution for the night/morning: the faint newspaper articles on the back cover. Did anyone ever figure them out? If so, then ignore the rest of this. If you read the title enough times you'll see that it is a scrambled version of "Company Using Cloning to Yield Stem Cells". A google search for that refers you to the NY Times article here. The second article on the back cover is From Nancy Reagan, a Nod Toward Embryonic Stem Cell Research. (This title isn't scrambled, probably because it is more or less unreadable)

I find it ironic that such heavy and controversial topics were chosen as "Easter Eggs" on a children's book, which I am sure was the intention. I do like these phrases from the second article:

...how divided the Republican party is...
...how politically complicated the issue is...
...he will have defenders and find political cover in unlikely and helpful places.
''This is one of those classic issues that, in a sense, redefines some things,''

They strike me as evocative of the VFD schism and the blurring of "party" lines and ethics.

Deep thoughts with Ellie at 2am.

[Dante]

On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised if the articles were simply chosen at random to give the back cover greater verisimilitude as a piece of newspaper by having the "other side" clearly visible. They're both from the same issue, which would have been out around the time the publishers would've been putting together the U.A.'s cover.

[MisterM]

--Chapter 10 Through 13--

As I have read all four of these chapters in a bit of a rush, I’ve just got a few small points

Monty Kensicle is a great ana gram.

Another quick reference to OFD. I thnk the OFD is a great idea. If only someone was writing a fanfic which was gong to be about OFD and its uncertain allegiance…… J

Brett refers to Snicket being involved in the ‘Quagmire case’ - is this the quagmire fire, or something different? Thinking about it, it must be another case. But what?

And so the introduction ends, and the intended Package begins.
So, maybe I’m wrong, but my interpretation of this… picture story. Is lemony checking the Baudelaire parents are in fact dead., as well as doing some research.


The Family tree however, I have always not looked at it as a ‘family’ tree, but a way of showing how all the different VFD’ers were recruited
A - Anwhistle,
B - Baudelaire
C - The only bit I cannot place
- D - Dewey, who may have recruited
- G - Gregor? But he might be to old. The only over G I cn think go if Gerladine, which cant work
H - Hector
I - Ishamel? But top old again. Ike?
- E - Ernest, who may have recruited
- J, K, & L - The snickets
- F - Frank, who may have recruited
- M - Monty
- N - Nero?
- O - Olivia

There are lots of interesting thing sin the index, and if I could be bothered to list them I would.


Clearly, I am not.
The most interesting if Hiding Place - The Fountain of Victors Finance. Already mentioned in TBBRE, but obviously becomes more of a plot point in ?1

Im will post notes on TCC chapter one tomorrow, however feel free to continue talking about TUA

[ironic impostor]

Thank you Charlie. Beginning with book 9 I will begin participating in the conversation. I have misplaced my copy of the UA at the moment.

[Ellie Spinelli]

@dante: To clarify, I don't believe somone went out of his way to pick those express articles. I agree with the purpose, but by "intentional" I was thinking more along the lines that they could just as easily have picked something lighter from fashion or television but since the option was there, why not go to a section of the newspaper more in harmony with the concept of being well-read - and these articles just happened to be there. My out-of-context quotes aren't meant to support a possible tie-in, they are just phrases that stood out to me because my mind was already on the subject of ASOUE and VFD. So concludes my over-analysis of the most useless portion of the book. While on the subject of covers though, I do love the front photo, although it isn't exactly the scene described in the introduction, it certainly is more interesting than having an empty room in the background.

[Dante]

Thank you for the clarification, Ellie. If it's just a matter of something slightly more than coincidence - where there wasn't an especially deliberate process but that nonetheless, of the immediately available possibilities, the ones that fitted in can be read a certain way - then I think that's a bit more of a legitimate reading rather than an over-reading. As for the front cover photograph, one which is quite difficult to get hold of, being only available on the hardcover copy of the original HarperCollins publication (but which can be seen here on the photographer's website), I agree, it is very fine; I have this vague sense that the man concealed by the envelope resembles a slightly slicker Daniel Handler, but that may be just a coincidence, too. I wonder if it's worth trying to contact Howard Huang about it? (Chortle, chortle - apparently he's done covers for Lauren Conrad's books, too...)