The 667 Dark Avenue Re-Read 2012

[Dante]

I think it's pretty strongly implied that Olivia either held an unrequited love for Olaf, or they were actually lovers. Either way, Esmé is motivated throughout TCC by jealousy of Olivia (or rather, Madame Lulu) and a desire to keep her away from Olaf.

[Charlie]

Yep, oh and also, what if, wait for it:

The Carnival was infact an elaborate VFD organisation to protect the ValleyFD from harm, hence the statue seller being part of VFD, and then Olivia went rogue, and sold VFD out to give someone what they want. So the reason the carnival hasn't moved is because VFD needs Olivia to be there for this period of time, and Olivia wants to give VFD what they want. Perhaps it moves to where VFD feels it's most necessary.... or something

[Anka]

I'm back in the re-read now I hope I can keep up until the end of the book this time...



Chapter 1:

- I like how the beginning of the book is a connection to the lions later and also fits the title.
- The conversation of Olaf and his troupe sound like Olaf and Esmé are the parents and the others are their children („are we there yet?“).
- Olaf saying that he hopes Violet will be the last one who is alive is creepy. And why isn't Esmé jealous when he says that?
- Maybe the phone call would have been more successful if Violet had just said „We are three children and we are alone and don't know where we are“

[Dante]

Mar 12, 2013 9:56:52 GMT -5 Anka said:

- The conversation of Olaf and his troupe sound like Olaf and Esmé are the parents and the others are their children („are we there yet?“).

An idea that's revisited, as I recall it, in Chapter Twelve. Watch out for it then; it's almost disturbing.

[MisterM]

Mar 12, 2013 9:56:52 GMT -5 Anka said:

- Olaf saying that he hopes Violet will be the last one who is alive is creepy. And why isn't Esmé jealous when he says that?

I expect she had a jealous look on her face, but wouldn't say anything.

Maybe the phone call would have been more successful if Violet had just said „We are three children and we are alone and don't know where we are“

Its a neat idea, but I expect they were to panicked to think of that.

[ironic impostor]

Chapter 1
1. "I recently looked in the refrigerator of one of my enemies, and learned that she was a vegetarian, or at least pretending to be one, or had a vegetarian friend visiting her for a few days." (Pg. 36)
This, in combination with the reference to a refrigerator repair man all the way back in book the fourth, suggests to me that for quite some time Handler had been intending to incorporate the idea of a clue being hid in a refrigerator should he ever get the chance to do so. And obviously we all know what comes up in TSS. I don't know, maybe I'm reading into it too much, but I just think Handler always had some form of a plan to incorporate a refrigerator if he ever got the chance.

2. When they're about to dial the pay phone Sunny says Veriz. This note is just something I enjoyed, and never caught any of the times I read TCC before, but chuckled to myself upon finally getting it. In fact, I know this isn't a very unique thing, but the more I re-read these the more I find myself chuckling at Sunny's lines, specifically in the books where she starts to utter words that actually hint at similar ideas to Snicket's translations.

3. I don't have a specific quote for this one, but it's always sort of bugged me that Olaf never caught on (or at least doesn't seem to show any signs that he did) that Madame Lulu was not really Madame Lulu. I mean, she was a part of V.F.D. and wore some of the same parts from disguises that Olaf has worn in past books, and those probably only detail a small fraction of the disguises Olaf has worn throughout his life. But what really makes me question why Olaf never figured out that Madame Lulu was a fake is the fact that she uses the same accent he did as Gunther. If Olaf used it, that means it was probably taught at V.F.D., and is something you would think Olaf would recognize.

Finally, my last note for Chapters 1 and 2, and TCC in general.

4. This is the book where I feel like Olaf is dumbed down quite a bit. I don't know, maybe not. But I mean, the thing I just brought up above in combination with some of Olaf's dialogue throughout this particular novel, it just makes Olaf seem rather foolish. I mean, he's seemed foolish before, but in book 1 (I think it's book 1 anyway, I could be wrong) it's established that he's a nut job, but a smart nut job. I'm not as huge of a fan of some of Olaf's characterization in some of the later novels. I mean, I like the later novels because they start to dive into the idea of moral ambiguity, and a little bit of depth is added to Olaf, but starting with book 9 I feel like Snicket somewhat dumbs him down just a tad. I'm not that big a fan of it. Still love the last couple of books of though. In fact, TPP is my third favorite within the series.

[Dante]

I think the "dumbing-down" of Olaf, while unfortunate, comes in tandem with an increase in the amount of black comedy in the series, of which TCC is quite exemplary. It may also anticipate, of course, the introduction in TSS of two villains who are far worse than Olaf, and later admissions that this is not uncommon. It would have been nice if Olaf could have stayed vicious, and I think the dumbing-down goes too far later, but I'm quite happy with TCC.

As to why Olaf never realises that Madame Lulu is anyone but Madame Lulu, maybe he's aware that her costume fits the V.F.D. Disguise Kit but is unable to recognise who she originally was - and moreover, doesn't care because her powers have always served him completely faithfully. He might never have known Olivia, or not known her well. It might be a difficult connectiont o make.

[ironic impostor]

I agree with your first point Dante, and that is something I didn't take in to account when writing that message. And it's interesting how you point out that you think it gets worse later on in the series. I think TCC is where Olaf is at his most foolish. I mean, there are some scenes in "TPP" I feel like could rival Olaf throughout this book when it comes to foolishness, but otherwise I think that Olaf slightly returns to his original self after TCC. I mean, I don't feel like Snicket ever makes him truly come back around full circle, as I've already admitted that throughout the later novels I'm not a huge fan of Olaf's characterization, but I think TCC is where Olaf's foolishness is most prominently on display since TMM, where he disguised himself as Shirley, which was a rather silly thing to do.

And regarding your second point, I never thought of it that way. Mostly because of the romantic involvement angle that is hinted at a couple times throughout TCC. But I do now suppose that his involvement with her could have come AFTER (is there a way to italicize on here, I hate having to capitalize in order to emphasize words, it makes it seem like I'm yelling when really I just want to draw people's attention to a certain word) Olaf joined the fire starting side of the V.F.D. schism, and never knew Olivia as anybody other than Madame Lulu.

[Dante]

Mar 14, 2013 15:26:55 GMT -5 ironic impostor said:

And regarding your second point, I never thought of it that way. Mostly because of the romantic involvement angle that is hinted at a couple times throughout TCC. But I do now suppose that his involvement with her could have come AFTER (is there a way to italicize on here, I hate having to capitalize in order to emphasize words, it makes it seem like I'm yelling when really I just want to draw people's attention to a certain word) Olaf joined the fire starting side of the V.F.D. schism, and never knew Olivia as anybody other than Madame Lulu.

V.F.D. was a big organisation. Olaf and Olivia could have been, and probably were, members since childhood without ever meeting each other before she took on her identity as Madame Lulu. If you're willing to make up a lot of backstory, conceivably he did know her but didn't think much of Olivia, which is why she was happy to keep on being Madame Lulu to him rather than revealing her true identity.

As for italicisation, it's this button:

Which creates tags you write in like this:
[i][/i]
[i]And you put words in them like this.[/i] (Except I'm tricking the system so you can see the tags at all, but don't worry about it. Just click the button and write in the tags. For quick reply, you'll have to remember the coding, though.)

[ironic impostor]

You bring up valid points sir. And you have obviously put much more thought into this series than I have. And also, thank you very much for the info about italicizing. It will be noted and utilized in future posts.

[Teleram]

Alrighty then..

--Chapter 1--
TCC is not my least fave in the series, or my fave, it's more in the middle for me. The beginning and the middle is thrilling, but, as Mister M said, it seems to fizzle out towards the end...
One thing that sort of confuses me is how none of the passengers in Olaf's car has fell asleep. I know it's not really a big deal, but they must've been driving for many hours. Isn't it possible that at least one of them would've been catching a few winks?
According to Wikipedia, Caligari Carnival is a reference to a film called The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari.
Why would all three Baudelaire siblings go into the same phone booth? Why didn't Violet just go in by herself, figure out what to do, make a phone call, come outside and tell Klaus and Sunny what happened?

[MisterM]

Well, TCC discussion seems to have died a silent death.
I dont have the time or energy (Im Ill at the moment) to re-read book 9 before the end of the month, so, Im going to start work on Re-Read TSS. Does anyone want to join me, or does anyone want to actually post more stuff about TCC?

[Teleram]

I'll do Chapter 2, but then I'll join Mister M.

[MisterM]

I'll post notes on the first three chapters of TSS tomorrow.

[MisterM]

Look, does anyone actually care about this? Or shall i wait until Dante comes back to start posting notes?