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Post by ryantrimble457 on Apr 1, 2018 14:18:24 GMT -5
Man, Olivia’s death hit hard, and the changes only made it hurt harder. She really, really didn’t deserve that. And those screams... That was awful. Yo I teared up. In a show where people constantly die, her death really hit. Cuz she was just pure good.
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Post by ryantrimble457 on Apr 1, 2018 14:21:05 GMT -5
BTW, I cannot get over how good-looking Kevin is. I feel like he's the most attractive person this season, which is really saying something considering it also contains Jacques and Esme. Yeah uhhh Freak Kevin made me feel things when he was chopping wood... Also so many of the adults are so good looking. Jacques? Esmé? OLIVIA (!!!). What a beautiful season.
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Post by Dante on Apr 1, 2018 16:24:37 GMT -5
In the books, Volunteer Fire Department is mooted as the meaning of V.F.D. in TSS, but this is never actually confirmed until The End and there was ambiguity even up until then as to whether this was the correct answer or just a red herring. However, the readers had, of course, all worked it out by TCC, and I sense that The End only confirmed it by editorial mandate; so while I was surprised to see the mystery actually definitively solved on-screen here, I felt that it was the right change to make. That particular mystery can now be tidied away to make way for others.
I liked the new detail that the freaks had their own talents and roles in the running of Caligari Carnival, and that the previous Madame Lulu was encouraging them to pursue other interests and career paths. It helped to balance out the new details about the character (I did expect it to be Kit) with the fact that the carnival still has freaks as an attraction. I also felt it was a nice touch to have them all crammed into Olaf's trunk at the end, in reflection of the Baudelaires voluntarily doing the same the previous episode. I'm not certain I'm convinced of the necessity of the complete reinvention of the Olivia character and her subplot; but it was a nice embellishment to carry through the season, and its ultimate resolution certainly lives up to the title of the series.
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Post by Hermes on Apr 1, 2018 17:57:03 GMT -5
In the books, Volunteer Fire Department is mooted as the meaning of V.F.D. in TSS, but this is never actually confirmed until The End and there was ambiguity even up until then as to whether this was the correct answer or just a red herring. It's true that no one says it outright, but everything that volunteers say tends to confirm it - both Widdershins' 'that's how it began' and Kit's 'to fight fires, literal and figurative'. (I think some people argued if that's how it began, that implies it can't have continued that way: but it seems perfectly reasonable that the name of the organisation would reflect its original purpose, even if it has expanded beyond that.) I suspect DH thought it was fairly clear, and wondered why people were so puzzled. And of course people went on saying the mystery was unsolved, even after it had been stated in so many words.
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lanayru
Catastrophic Captain
Posts: 69
Likes: 62
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Post by lanayru on Apr 1, 2018 23:14:36 GMT -5
I was debating saving these last two episodes for tomorrow but I just couldn’t help myself! I just finished the first part and wooooooow that was a lot to take in.
-I already saw that VFD Headquarters scene since it was posted online prior to the season but it was still exciting to watch again. It was so nice seeing Monty and Josephine. I loved the elaborate passing of the note, it was so Snicket-y. I’m glad we got to see some Snicket sibling interactions. And Beatrice!!
-Aaaah, the mentions of Fiona! Great foreshadowing.
-“Who could that be at this hour” omg
-I enjoyed Olaf’s song in this episode much, much more than the one in TEE
-Kevin was hilarious and fantastic, he’s always been one of the funniest characters in the books for me
-Lemony with sad clown makeup on was great
-I love the continuity with the kids still having their outfits from TVV on, and Violet using her makeshift ribbon from THH. I do really love the book illustrations but one thing that always annoyed me a bit was how they were always illustrated with the same outfits, even when the book specifically says that they were wearing something else.
-Gustav! Hearing all those VFD codes!
-“Arsonist disguise” with the same hat from the Quagmire fire scene in season 1. Hmm.
-I gasped when Lemony mentioned Stain’d-by-the-Sea in that clip
-They revealed what VFD stands for a little bit earlier, probably to make the finale have a bit more payoff
-Olivia’s character deviates a lot from the book, so I’m very curious how that all plays out in part 2
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lanayru
Catastrophic Captain
Posts: 69
Likes: 62
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Post by lanayru on Apr 2, 2018 0:26:33 GMT -5
Well, I finished it. Wow. I probably don’t have anything to say that hasn’t already been discussed, but here I go.
NPH’s twins making a cameo was great and they were absolutely adorable!
It was already apparent for quite a few episodes now, but Olivia is a completely different character in the show than she was in the books. On one hand, her death had much more impact and it especially hit hard because she was so, so close to helping the Baudelaires. On the other, her moral ambiguity was what made her an interesting character in the books and I’m a bit disappointed to lose that. So, I’m pretty ambivalent about how I feel about the changes but nevertheless her death made me tear up.
I love how incredibly compassionate the Baudelaires are, to Kevin, Colette, and Hugo and to the lions. Their compassion and strong morals are what makes it so devastating when they have to do awful things just to survive. The scene where they grapple with whether to burn down the tent or not was very well done and very heartbreaking. Oh man I really can’t wait until TPP when it all becomes so much worse.
I’ve said it before but I’d just like to say again that I’m very impressed with how Malina and Louis have grown as actors!
I’m pretty sure that woman at the end who has the Sugar Bowl has to be Kit.
I’m so sad I don’t have any new episodes until season three, but I’m very much looking forward to rewatching and discussing them! I feel so lucky to have this adaptation of books I loved very dearly.
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Post by Grace on Apr 2, 2018 17:05:46 GMT -5
Said it before and I'll say it again, handsome Kevin is a total game changer. And Olivia killed it. Got a place in my heart for Madame Lulu always (not just cause we have the same hair).
These episodes were so great! I have a couple issues but it's 100% nitpicking. I agree that the idea of throwing Olaf into the pit was a little off-putting, and is going to be difficult to reconcile with refusing to kill Esmé next season. The arsonist disguise was a bit confusing, as we all thought the outfit's fanciness was supposed to indicate Esmé, but I'm of the opinion that it probably still is Esmé? I also didn't like the video idea in general, basically stuffing all of LSUA into a 30-second videotape is a bit hard to watch as a hardcore book fan. I get it, though. And for the most part, these episodes totally delivered.
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Post by gliquey on Apr 3, 2018 14:17:09 GMT -5
Wow! I think these episodes are second only to the THH ones; I was looking forwards to this book the most out of the season 2 episodes, and not disappointed. I think the change in plot with Olivia / Lulu makes complete sense and though I did like Book Lulu's moral ambiguity, I still enjoy this version of the story. There were so many excellent details in this episode; it made me yearn to re-read the books again in a way that other episodes haven't. I'll try to avoid repeating things others have said but even so this is going to be a long post. OK, time for an actual comment now. NPH's husband and kids in the audience was so adorable, and I enjoyed spotting other recognizable people like the bearded man, Mrs. Bass, and the village elders. Speaking of Bass, she had already robbed her bank to get the bag of money, but now she's riding with Mr. Poe and is making noises like she's going to rob again. A second bank? Or is she robbing Mulctuary Money Management twice, and if so, why? I had the same thought - certainly I'm glad of the extra bank robbery jokes we've had, but I would have preferred if she's said she was making a deposit, with the implication being that she had robbed Mulctuary Money Management and then almost immediately deposited the money in her account at the same bank. I was also a little bit disappointed in the dollar signs on the bag with no "Mulctuary Money Management" symbol on it. The only change I'm not liking is them keeping the henchpeople around. Esme line of when they loose henchmen doesn't make sense. It would also be nice for the audience to have the villains loosing people as well as the good side. I agree. I'm glad the Henchperson of Indeterminate Gender is sticking around but I wouldn't have minded the killing off of the bald henchperson (or Hugo or Colette). Still, I liked the joke of the carnival freaks travelling in the trunk of the car. The figurative and literal Cliffhanger was great. Also I'm really happy that the belly of the beast made it into the story. I loved the counter on the screen. I thought that was really cleaver. I also loved both of these things. The "literal cliffhanger" pun never makes it into the book, does it? Though it may well have been intended. And I wasn't expecting them to keep the "belly of the beast" thing, so it was a pleasant surprise. These episodes were so great! I have a couple issues but it's 100% nitpicking. I agree that the idea of throwing Olaf into the pit was a little off-putting, and is going to be difficult to reconcile with refusing to kill Esmé next season. I also disliked this suggestion - I think the implication is that if Olaf had stepped close enough to Violet and Klaus, they would have definitely killed him. As well as the TSS plot, this conflicts with their quandary in TE over whether to throw Olaf overboard - something I very much want to see. I hoped they would be playing up the moral conflict theme of the later books, with the emphasis of Hal's kindness in THH, but I think TCC's implication of the children plotting murder is a big mistake. --------- Though reception to it seems to be very popular here, I wasn't a big fan of the masked ball. The "Olaf knows" note - particularly when it flies as a paper aeroplane - struck me as a bad joke. However, I did enjoy the scene from the moment Lemony appears, and also liked the several mentions of the "woman in a dragonfly costume" later in the episodes. Good moments: - Olivia mentioning Fernald's sister, and his reaction to it.
- The emphasis on the conflict between Esme and Lulu.
- Olaf falling over drunk after insisting to Esme that he can walk.
- "Vicious Feline Display"
- All of the clips the Baudelaires see in Lulu's library - as others have mentioned, Lemony's Stain'd-by-the-Sea report is the standout moment.
Bad moments: - "weirse" in the opening credits.
- I don't understand the Henchperson of Indeterminate Gender's comment about "first" and the patriarchy.
- I think Lulu's accent was a bit overdone.
- I don't think the corn scene worked very well, particularly as neither Baudelaire actually put it in their mouths on-screen. Perhaps there was something better they could have done instead.
- It's out of character for the Henchperson of Indeterminate Gender to be laughing at the Baudelaires or joining in with the mocking chants.
- "wait inside my car" makes less sense coming from Olaf (in the books, a woman protested and her husband was annoyed).
- Olaf says "I could care less", an annoying phrase which I don't feel like Handler would use in the books without pointing out and criticising (if you can care less, then you must care a non-zero amount).
- The music when the caravan begins its descent ruins the mood (though it's not as bad as some season 1 moments).
Stray notes: - I'm not sure if either of the following are intentional fourth wall breaks, but I like them: "Her accent sounds fake" / "Your [Esme's] accent sounds fake." and Olaf's "the Caligari Carnival's Big Top Finale" (in the last episode).
- Is it pronounced "car-bow"? I've always said "kay-bow".
- Does Violet propose using the tagliatelle grande as a fan belt in the books? It makes sense, but unfortunately Sunny stealing it means it probably won't be reappearing in TGG.
EDIT: I forgot to mention that I quite liked Olaf's song "Welcome to the House of Freaks". I think these songs are always a bit hit and miss but this one was mostly hit, I think, justified in-universe and quite funny.
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Post by ryantrimble457 on Apr 3, 2018 14:48:23 GMT -5
gliquey, in the book, it's the belt from the fan that Lulu uses. But since they got rid of that, they went with the noodle instead. Also, I didn't hate the Baudelaires thinking about pushing Count Olaf simply because it read as self-defense to me. He had forced them out onto a plank to their possible death so the only way they could live was to push him out of the way. Imooo.
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Post by Violent BUN Fortuna on Apr 3, 2018 15:00:58 GMT -5
One thing I forgot to say before, and this isn't really a criticism, just something I would have liked to see, is that I missed the Déjà vu joke from the book, which I always loved. It would have been nice to include that -- but as I say, it's not really a criticism.
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Post by gliquey on Apr 3, 2018 15:12:00 GMT -5
gliquey , in the book, it's the belt from the fan that Lulu uses. But since they got rid of that, they went with the noodle instead. Ah of course. While we're on the subject, I did quite enjoy the reinvention of Lulu's crystal ball with the films, and the literal "smoke and mirrors" joke. It is more literal spur-of-the-moment self-defence than later book dilemmas, but it is still fundamentally a choice to kill Olaf when there are other options (as we see, the pit was small enough for them to jump over and run away). Violet's joke that maybe Olaf is the only person who deserves to be fed to the lions also strikes me as a tiny bit uncharacteristic, though it felt familiar to me so maybe it's a line from the books.
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Post by Grace on Apr 3, 2018 16:03:47 GMT -5
- I don't understand the Henchperson of Indeterminate Gender's comment about "first" and the patriarchy.
- I think Lulu's accent was a bit overdone.
It was supposed to be overdone! I thought it was hilarious, it's such a mix of "foreign" accents but also so imitable? Loved it. Also, the "first" joke is a sex joke. Fernald says, "I'm younger but I have more experience," (innuendo for sexual experience) and then HOIG says, "The concept of 'first' seems problematically to be centered around patriarchy." Just like it is for girls having sex for the first time. It fits in well with HOIG's ~radical politics from previous episodes too.
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Post by Grace on Apr 3, 2018 16:05:16 GMT -5
gliquey, in the book, it's the belt from the fan that Lulu uses. But since they got rid of that, they went with the noodle instead. Also, I didn't hate the Baudelaires thinking about pushing Count Olaf simply because it read as self-defense to me. He had forced them out onto a plank to their possible death so the only way they could live was to push him out of the way. Imooo. Right, but the Baudelaires never consider hurting others, even in the case of self-defense, acceptable in the books. Considering how dangerous their lives are, shocking that they've managed to live this long. EDIT: Or, like, the concept of it's-us-or-him (him being Olaf) is something they struggle wiith throughout the books and their going further and further into that grey area is the moral center of the last few books in particular.
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Post by gliquey on Apr 3, 2018 17:00:42 GMT -5
It was supposed to be overdone! I thought it was hilarious, it's such a mix of "foreign" accents but also so imitable? Loved it. Yes, it's supposed to be exaggerative, but I found it annoying and unfunny. This is clearly subjective though. Right, that makes sense. I didn't understand Fernald's double entendre. So the Henchperson of Indeterminate Gender is making a comment on the double standard of virginity.
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Post by Grace on Apr 3, 2018 17:19:51 GMT -5
I guess. I personally found Sara Rue's character annoying until she showed her range in TCC. Like, assuming everything the actors do has intentionality is hard to remember sometimes but it's important.
And yep.
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