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Post by Dante on Oct 23, 2005 2:49:52 GMT -5
They'll be saved by the ? I rather doubt it. I've ranted about this before, and PJ will disagree (and I don't want to argue with you, friend, so just put forward your view, if you want, and then we'll move onto something else), but the question mark represents the fact that there's always something worse and more terrifying. Explain the question mark, and you lose that mystery, you lose that terror, and you have to come up with something else. It's a metaphor for all the mysteries in the series. That's why it's a question mark. And dirkamoeba's right. There's still every chance of discovering the contents of the sugar bowl, and that's one mystery which Handler can't afford not to answer. I do think, though, that many of the minor mysteries will never be solved, never ever ever. I think most of the backstory and such will be left for the fans to come up with (the Snicket Snickersee, for example). For Handler to explain everything now, B13 would either have to be extremely long, or just about every sentence would have to answer one of our questions. In fact, mysteries which I think will actually be solved: Sugar bowl; Beatrice; Olaf's parents; Baudelaire fire; possibly the Widdershins family. |
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Post by Sora on Oct 23, 2005 2:57:49 GMT -5
I agree with you there Dante, but I also think that the mystery of Lemony's connection to the Baudelaire orphans.
Throught all the books Lemony has spoke, even subliminaly of his connection with Baudelaires. The mystery of Duncan's last words, something along the lines of "His name should sound familiar, he is the brother of a man who is...." such and such. The fact taht it's his duty to report these events makes it even more obvious he has close ties. Although the Snicket family do seem to have been friends of Mr and Mrs. Bertrand Baudelaire, I think Lemony has a special one.
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Post by Dante on Oct 23, 2005 3:02:11 GMT -5
Oh yeah. I'd forgotten about that one. I have a few ideas about where the Baudelaire children might have heard of Lemony, but I can't really think why he's doing this. It all depends on who Beatrice is, I guess. That's the central question of the series.
"Then you know all about the sugar bowl," Esmé said, "and what's inside. You know how important that thing was, and how many lives were lost in the quest to find it. You know how difficult it was to find a container that could hold it safely, securely and attractively. You know what it means to the Baudelaires and to the Snickets."
According to Esmé, the contents of the sugar bowl are important to both the Baudelaires and the Snickets. That could have something to do with it, I guess.
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Post by PJ on Oct 23, 2005 3:36:08 GMT -5
VFD's really falling apart--not only is it broken in two, with both sides equally corrupt, members are losing contact. I think Book 13 will be massively tragic for all involved, perhaps ending VFD once and for all. Actually, thats a good idea. I love the idea of having the entire VFD destroyed in Book 13, both good and bad, wiped out. Sure VFD has a place to meet. They can still communicate the same way they've always communicated: secret messages, codes, telegrams, etc... the sea is the last safe place for the bauds. And they can meet in the sshamh. Series are always done like this, almost every chance for good to triumph fails miserably, but then in the end... Codes can be intercepted...and remember, both sides use the same codes. And VFD isn't really recruiting, whilst OFD keeps getting more and more people. I rather doubt it. I've ranted about this before, and PJ will disagree (and I don't want to argue with you, friend, so just put forward your view, if you want, and then we'll move onto something else), but the question mark represents the fact that there's always something worse and more terrifying. Explain the question mark, and you lose that mystery, you lose that terror, and you have to come up with something else. It's a metaphor for all the mysteries in the series. That's why it's a question mark. This is a CHILDRENS series, remember? Kids don't really pick up subtle symbols; if the ? doesn't make another appearance, or, at the very least, is explained, then lots of people will be unhappy. Unless its further explained about the imagery, or something. Widdershins will probably spill the beans, eventually. They have to find SOMEONE who will answer their questions. It would be awesome if that person was Olaf. Edit: I wikipedia'd Bertrand, and this is all I found: Joseph Louis Francois Bertrand |
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Post by Sora on Oct 23, 2005 3:41:04 GMT -5
This is a CHILDRENS series, remember? Kids don't really pick up subtle symbols; if the ? doesn't make another appearance, or, at the very least, is explained, then lots of people will be unhappy. Unless its further explained about the imagery, or something. Widdershins will probably spill the beans, eventually. They have to find SOMEONE who will answer their questions. It would be awesome if that person was Olaf. What is Disney's The Little Mermaid but a 90 minute movie of symbolic allusions to the sacred feminine? |
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Post by PJ on Oct 23, 2005 3:45:16 GMT -5
This is a CHILDRENS series, remember? Kids don't really pick up subtle symbols; if the ? doesn't make another appearance, or, at the very least, is explained, then lots of people will be unhappy. Unless its further explained about the imagery, or something. Widdershins will probably spill the beans, eventually. They have to find SOMEONE who will answer their questions. It would be awesome if that person was Olaf. What is Disney's The Little Mermaid but a 90 minute movie of symbolic allusions to the sacred feminine? Yes, but thats HIDDEN. The ? beast certainly ISN'T. People EXPECT answers. It's not like there is a giant statue in the middle of Ariel's castle that pays homage to the sacred feminine which is often showed and remarked about, but never explained. |
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Post by Sora on Oct 23, 2005 3:53:52 GMT -5
Yes, but is her HAIR a wig? That being that her hair is often showed and remarked about but never explained as being the allusion to Mary Magdelane? The ? may be shown and remarked about, but still can retain an air of mystery. They are shown on the hats of firefighters coming form the Baudelaire house in TBB. Surely THAT has to make it more... well mysterioso, don't you think?
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Post by Sixteen on Oct 23, 2005 4:31:55 GMT -5
I finally got the book yesterday. I loved it. The title I'm still unsure about though. First of all, there are mentions that the Baudelaires have been in training for recruitment. I hope that that as a lie, because it seems to cruel for V.F.D. There are also several references to the hotel being in ashes for years, the Denouement family unseen for years etc. This backs up the theory that Lemony isn't a few steps behind. Does anyone notice that whenever children are "taken", their house is burnt down? From the UA, "When will I see my parents again?" The questiom is unanswered. "Then you know all about the sugar bowl," Esmé said, "and what's inside. You know how important that thing was, and how many lives were lost in the quest to find it. You know how difficult it was to find a container that could hold it safely, securely and attractively. You know what it means to the Baudelaires and to the Snickets."According to Esmé, the contents of the sugar bowl are important to both the Baudelaires and the Snickets. That could have something to do with it, I guess. When I first read that I thought of the poison dart. Esmé and Mrs. Bass' disguises were absolutely hilarious in this book. Kevin is the only one still concerned with his freakishness. The Hotel D had green wooden floors. I think the quote about Olaf being seven meant that the schism occured at that time. Not that he played a part in it, it just happened and made him happy. |
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Post by PJ on Oct 23, 2005 4:53:07 GMT -5
Yes, but is her HAIR a wig? That being that her hair is often showed and remarked about but never explained as being the allusion to Mary Magdelane? The ? may be shown and remarked about, but still can retain an air of mystery. They are shown on the hats of firefighters coming form the Baudelaire house in TBB. Surely THAT has to make it more... well mysterioso, don't you think? Well...it isn't really necissary to remark on hair, whilst it is necissary to remark on what the hell a giant Question Mark terrorising the seas is. The symbolism in The Little Mermaid is hidden, only older, more educated persons can see it. The Question Mark Beast, however, plays quite a large part, or, at least, it is mentioned quite a bit. Younger children will wonder what it is, rather than appreciating it for its mysteriousness and symbolism. |
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Post by callum on Oct 23, 2005 5:03:28 GMT -5
the thing i loved most in this book was that i three-dimentionalised olaf
ie; his parents
and the what else can i do line that was so good
i think the 13th book will consist of the bauds and olaf on the boat and sharing ideas
olaf giving the bauds a history of VFD and maybe slightly redeeming himself maybe sacrificing himself
i think that maybe if beatrice is a baudelaire
the sugar bowl will comtain evidense that lemony and beatrice where meant to be together
maybe thats why it's important to the snickets and bauds
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Post by LargeManFeOrMale on Oct 23, 2005 5:52:16 GMT -5
The 13th book will be the third book based around water (well, probably) He's really milking the cow on liquid. . .
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Post by callum on Oct 23, 2005 6:08:55 GMT -5
yes but the whole book is fire centric
some one should catogorize the book according to the elements fire earth wind water
i'd do i t but i'm lazy and tired
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Post by Dante on Oct 23, 2005 6:17:31 GMT -5
First of all, there are mentions that the Baudelaires have been in training for recruitment. I hope that that as a lie, because it seems to cruel for V.F.D. Yes, I wasn't quite happy with some of the few answers we did get in this book. This book really messes up the timing, especially with regards to Lemony's letter to Kit in TSS. That letter must have been written before TPP took place, as Lemony's statements indicate that the hotel is most certainly still intact (unless he's referring to the underwater catalog, but that's a real stretch), but a few things in TPP (and most of the other books) make it seem like the books were written years later. I said before TPP that whatever the most recent book indicated on timing, I'd go with that, but it's still messed up, so now I think it's an inconsistent combination of recent and years later. Classifications of each book according to element: TBB: Fire TRR: *shrug* Earth TWW: Water TMM: Earth TAA: *shrug* Earth TEE: Earth TVV: Air THH: Fire TCC: Earth/Fire TSS: Water TGG: Water TPP: Fire |
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Antenora
Detriment Deleter 
Fiendish Philologist
Put down that harpoon gun, in the name of these wonderful birds!
Posts: 15,891 
Likes: 113
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Post by Antenora on Oct 23, 2005 6:25:34 GMT -5
I agree with you there Dante, but I also think that the mystery of Lemony's connection to the Baudelaire orphans. . I hope that's solved when Lemony meets with the orphans in Book 13; he apparently met with them in B12 but they didn't go with him in the taxi. Maybe they'll see him again, getting a second chance to (metaphorically) get into that taxi and flee. This is a CHILDRENS series, remember? Kids don't really pick up subtle symbols; if the ? doesn't make another appearance, or, at the very least, is explained, then lots of people will be unhappy. Unless its further explained about the imagery, or something. But the series is full of allusions that children aren't likely to catch, and the Question Mark could be just another example thereof. Snicket has implied that it represents "the evil out there you cannot even imagine". As for elements: You could connect TAA to air, because the element of air is traditionally associated with education and communication. But the setting of the book is graveyard-like, which is more earth-related. |
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Post by jman on Oct 23, 2005 7:24:09 GMT -5
Question: Do you think TMWBBNH and TWWHBNB will play a big role in book 13? I hope so! I mean, they appear to be Olaf's bosses, and so that makes them eviler... Maybe Olaf will turn good and help the children against the two sinister unnameables?  |
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