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Post by joker on Mar 17, 2006 11:50:44 GMT -5
My bad. Sorry.
It seems that Sir is related to Mr. Poe. Maybe third sibling???
Whit faced women + P.I.G. (person inermediate gender)
Possibility, cause in SS they walked away because they said their sibling died in fire.
P.I.G died in fire, right?
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Post by Dante on Mar 17, 2006 11:59:11 GMT -5
Whit faced women + P.I.G. (person inermediate gender) Possibility, cause in SS they walked away because they said their sibling died in fire. P.I.G died in fire, right? But that was in a fire that destroyed their home, and I got the impression that it happened quite a long time ago. |
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Post by Leah is Bored on Mar 17, 2006 12:03:17 GMT -5
As for the Suspicious Characters 'tree', everyone who is related has a straight thin black line between the names. Also, on the right hand side, the background pattern changes. Am I just being paranoid here? I don't see anything that distinguishes the characters in that section from the other. If by "related" you mean blood-related, within the same family, then some of the links would be rather odd. White-faced Women #1, the Neither Man Nor Woman person, and Madame Lulu? Quigley and Mrs. Bass? Also note that Hooky and Fiona, a pair of siblings, are linked by a thick dashed line. I no longer think there's a pattern between the line usage, or a consistent one, or one that makes sense. Yes, but I meant the straight black lines. Your right, though. It doesn't fit for Hooky and Fiona. My lack of computer knowledge fails me again. |
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Post by Alice Wilde on Mar 17, 2006 12:11:30 GMT -5
Speculations:
SHOCKING SECRET NUMBER #1
Lemony Snicket is not you think he is.
He could be anyone, actually. Violet's father. Beatrice's murderer. The villain, while Olaf was the noble person all along. Olaf himself. We've trusted him for so long...He was our window into the Baudelaires' world. There is always that chance that in trusting him, we were wrong.
SHOCKING SECRET NUMBER #2
Lemony Snicket is one of three siblings.
Kit, Jacques, and Lemony. Twins and the little Snicket lad.
SHOCKING SECRET #3
Lemony Snicket's niece is an orphan.
Wha-huh? Niece, pray tell? I think that Kit's child is most likely, simply because if Jacques had a daughter, where is she now? Is she someone we know? Violet? Sunny? Carmelita? Fiona?
I think that Kit's child will be born in the final book, and in her mother's weakened state something will happen that makes her an orphan. Besides, it's nice knowing the baby's gender. Lemony will probably end up raising her. There's so much more information if we err on the side of the orphan being Kit's.
SHOCKING SECRET NUMBER #4
Lemony Snicket is wanted for arson.
We knew this, of course...but for which fire?
SHOCKING SECRET NUMBER #5
Lemony Snicket grew up with a terrible villain.
He grew up with one of the Sinister Duo, probably. Good Lord, what they must have done to him...
SHOCKING SECRET #6
Lemony Snicket attended boarding school.
Doesn't anyone find it strange that in the previous secret, Lemony grew up with a villain, yet here he went to boarding school? I suppose there were the summer months and weekends for said villain to raise him, but still...
SHOCKING SECRET NUMBER #7
When he was a baby, Lemony Snicket was kidnapped by a secret organization.
...I thought he wasn't taken as a baby? That's what he told Dr. Patton in the first chapter of LS:UA. Then, there was that photograph at the end...Why would he lie about such things though?
SHOCKING SECRET NUMBER #8
Lemony Snicket was fired from The Daily Punctilio.
I wish we could have been able to read his final article. What was he trying to tell his readers?
SHOCKING SECRET #9
Lemony Snicket helped Beatrice commit a serious crime before her death.
I would say the theft of the sugar bowl, but that hardly seems serious, like arson or murder. Then again, we don't know what's inside...
SHOCKING SECRET #10
Lemony Snicket was disguised as a bullfighter when he was captured.
Captured by whom? The police? Well, obviously, he's escaped. Olaf's associates?
SHOCKING SECRET #11
Lemony Snicket's work is filled with secret messages meant for his associates.
Messages? Plural? I can only remember that letter he sent to Kit in TSS.
SHOCKING SECRET NUMBER #12
Lemony Snicket has a tattoo of an eye on his ankle.
So, he was a member of VFD pre-schism, I suppose?
SHOCKING SECRET NUMBER #13
HE IS FINISHED
With book thirteen. If Lemony dies...oh, I don't even want to think about it.
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Post by Dante on Mar 17, 2006 12:15:52 GMT -5
Yes, but I meant the straight black lines. Your right, though. It doesn't fit for Hooky and Fiona. Ah, I see. Sorry, I misinterpreted you. But even that seems to have some exceptions or variations - Esmé and Jerome are linked that way, but they're married rather than related. So are Sir and Charles, but there's never been a mention of them being siblings (although using the Esmé-Jerome marriage as a springboard, could that imply?!). Carmelita is linked to her uncle Bruce by a curved and very small dotted line, and it's a closer relation than that of the Baudelaires to Monty and Josephine. Oh, and the link between Fernald and Fiona (which apparently goes underneath one of the white-faced women) also bounces off and links to Captain Widdershins, who is only their stepfather, and apparently also links Fernald to Olaf. (I don't know why I seem to be so bent on destroying any possible logic to it. But if there are problems, I can't help but raise them.) Edit: Also, Alice, you seem to have interpreted "grew up with" as "raised by," whereas I interpreted it as saying that he knew and was at a similar age to said terrible villain while he was growing up. As far as secret messages go, there was also a short message to Kit in TCC, and some of his random anecdotes or throwaway details could be vitally important to somebody who knows the context. |
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Post by Alice Wilde on Mar 17, 2006 12:23:51 GMT -5
Oh, I hadn't even thought of that. Usually when I hear that phrase it's in the context "I grew up with my grandparents because my parents were [something]." Then again, for the Sinister Duo to be Olaf's siblings they would have to be around Olaf and Lemony's supposed ages, but I've never put much stock in that theory.
I find it amusing that everyone in the series is labeled "a suspicious character" for some reason.
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Antenora
Detriment Deleter 
Fiendish Philologist
Put down that harpoon gun, in the name of these wonderful birds!
Posts: 15,891 
Likes: 113
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Post by Antenora on Mar 17, 2006 12:58:00 GMT -5
My lack of computer knowledge fails me again. It has to do with the type of file I'd saved it as(a gif), which caused the image to lose some colors. If I have time later, I might try uploading it as a different type, but I think with certain types of files the text would be harder to read. As for "...grew up with a terrible villain" it's true that it could be interpreted a couple of ways, meaning that Lemony lived with a villain his age, or that he was raised by one. Or perhaps, that terrible villain went to boarding school with him, or taught at that school. It's all fairly ambiguous, and the clues can be fitted together in many ways. I also think there's no consistent pattern of line usage in the chart; for instance, some of the lines with arrows seem to indicate marriages or romance, but some of them seem arbitrary. |
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Post by Flaneur on Mar 17, 2006 16:14:35 GMT -5
I am faint with amazement. I shall never cease to be amazed. How many amazing things this series holds! It seems to get more complicated every day; I've known there is a mystery, but how it grows!
The boarding school. I already knew about this. I meant to make a thread a long time ago, but never did - anyway, there are numerous slightly-important-seeming references in the new edition of The Bears' Famous Invasion of Sicily, and a few relate to this. There was a "headquarters where [Mr. Snicket] spent most of [his] days," and the boarding school was part of this, and it was definitely a V.F.D. training school. This can mean that either Prufrock Prep is V.F.D. or that the boarding school was not Prufrock Prep, according to preference. Also, recall that the Duchess of Winnipeg apparently taught V.F.D. skills in a mountain classroom long ago, and recall the tale we once overheard Count Olaf tell about being "the most handomsome fellow at school," or some such nonsense.
I was going to say that the secret which most interests me is the one about the terrible villain Mr. Snicket grew up with, but by the end of this post I have decided that it was Olaf and it was at the boarding school, so I shall now say only that I am very worried about Kit. And about Lemony. I'm beginning to feel betrayed by this whole series, to tell the truth.
EDIT: Also, this wider conspiracy concerning the Baudelaires and Count Olaf's implication therein also really worries me. I remember from when I first read tPP getting the feeling of "oh no, oh god, that stupid cruel 'all this is training for the Baudelaires' theory is true." I worry that this has something to do with that.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2006 18:56:23 GMT -5
On the 'family tree' hooky is related to olaf in the same way he is related to fiona and widdershins.
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Post by joker on Mar 17, 2006 20:41:38 GMT -5
 Possibility??? Sir-Poe Brotherhood??? Definately, in my opinion. That would explain why Sir had a bad childhood! Mr. Poe's cough might've been from Sir's smoke! Why would he have cigarettes as a kid You might ask? DING DING DING! Bad childhood! Charles said it, you remember, from MM! He said Sir had a terrible cghildhood! Maybe Sir was abused and forced to take cighs. or maybe he got them on his own but was punished for them horribly, or something along those lines....What do you think?
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Post by lauren on Mar 17, 2006 21:14:58 GMT -5
Book the third “Aunt Josephine revealed her mother in law had only one eyebrow” What the!? Olaf’s mum :-\ maybe? If that were so then Gregory Anwhistle would have had to have married a sister of Olaf. TWW, page 48: (After Baudelaires insist Captain Sham is Count Olaf)
"But plenty of people have those characteristics," Aunt Josephine said. "Why, my mother-in-law had not only one eyebrow, but also only one ear."Oh yeah, thanks for finding that quote. Hmm only one ear? Does anyone recall a story hidden in the books where a person's ear was removed? The only incident of missing ears I can think of is Van Gogh who was also characterised by one eyebrow. Although he's not a woman... |
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Post by Jacques the Environmentalist on Mar 17, 2006 21:48:31 GMT -5
Is Ike a cousin of the baudelaire mother? That would mean Mrs. Baudelaire's aunt would have only one eyebrow. hmmmmm.
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Post by Sora on Mar 17, 2006 21:53:31 GMT -5
Ike was supposed to be a distant relative, a third cousin I believe.
As for the Poe-Brotherhood, I think that's unlikely, sense Poe genuinely can't pronounce Sir's real name. Someone who grows up with you must of at least once mentioned how to say his name.
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Post by joker on Mar 17, 2006 22:21:57 GMT -5
That's why he's disguised his name as Sir, so no one could understand his name so they could call him Sir. But yeah, if Mr. Poe was his brother, he'd known how to pronounce it. But other than that, isn't it a perfect fit? The coughing from smoke and bad childhood?
Hmm...
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Post by Grace on Mar 18, 2006 8:43:01 GMT -5
SHOCKING SECRET NUMBER #1
Lemony Snicket is not you think he is.
I’m probably the only one who didn’t take this seriously. We don’t know much about the man for starters, though I could be wrong.
SHOCKING SECRET NUMBER #2
Lemony Snicket is one of three siblings.
Well, yes.
SHOCKING SECRET #3
Lemony Snicket's niece is an orphan.
Kit: This would make sense, and, like everyone else said, he’s telling us that Kit will die. If Dewey is the father, then he died, so it makes sense. We also know the child is female. If Kit has another child we already know, I don’t know. Jacques: If it’s his child, it would make sense because he’s dead. Not likely, but I’m just adding it. One more thing that’s probably false: I just wanted to add the speculation that some people (not me) have that Kit is the Bauds’ mom.
SHOCKING SECRET NUMBER #4
Lemony Snicket is wanted for arson.
And Olaf really did it.
SHOCKING SECRET NUMBER #5
Lemony Snicket grew up with a terrible villian.
I like Lauren’s theory, that he grew up with him because they went to Prufrock (a TRAINING SCHOOL, Dante!). It fits in. Another possibility is the aura of menaceers.
SHOCKING SECRET #6
Lemony Snicket attended boarding school.
Prufrock Prep, most likely. Though it seems a bit obvious, possible red herring.
SHOCKING SECRET NUMBER #7
When he was a baby, Lemony Snicket was kidnapped by a secret organization.
In LSUA.
SHOCKING SECRET NUMBER #8
Lemony Snicket was fired from The Daily Punctilio.
Why? I’d like to know.
SHOCKING SECRET #9
Lemony Snicket helped Beatrice commit a serious crime before her death.
Poison darts comes to mind, I’m more partial to that than the sugar bowl.
SHOCKING SECRET #10
Lemony Snicket was disguised as a bullfighter when he was captured.
We knew this, Dante? Someone wanna fill me in?
SHOCKING SECRET #11
Lemony Snicket's work is filled with secret messages meant for his associates.
Yes.
SHOCKING SECRET NUMBER #12
Lemony Snicket has a tattoo of an eye on his ankle.
We know.
SHOCKING SECRET NUMBER #13
HE IS FINISHED
I’ll just take what everyone else said and admit that it means he’s either dead (which would actually be a nice ending to the books, since Handler would be writing more as himself) or done writing, obviously. I’m betting on the former.
Notable Book Overviews:
Violet Baudelaire invents a grappling hook.
How is this noteworthy? Or did they just need to use the letter ‘H’?
Someone important passes as a taxi driver unnoticed.
Of course, this could be anybody. I’m guessing it’s someone noble, because that would have been a definite loss that someone noble was so close. Jacques?
Aunt Josephine reveals that her mother-in-law has one eyebrow.
…I’m gonna leave this one to you, those that have the whole family tree thing worked out.
200-page book by Beatrice.
I was reminded of TBL, but obviously not, because it’s by Beatrice. Interesting. New piece of information.
Sword fight with teeth.
Again, don’t know why it’s noteworthy.
Secret island.
Secret pocket in mother’s coat.
No idea. I’m going with lauren’s theory of poison darts, because that’s the only non-noble thing we know they’ve done. Though there definitely could be more.
False Spring Rolls.
Was this just Handler being funny?
Water Cycle.
See above.
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Possibility??? 
