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Post by BMatt on Oct 7, 2004 22:07:47 GMT -5
Ha! I shop at Hot Topic, and as everyone knows, I'm very much a Christian! I believe that Satanists and all types of witches (Wiccans included) are going to hell. They are completely against God and His teachings, despite what a few Wiccans claim. This is my firm belief, and if that offends somebody, tough. That was very interesting information on the penticle/pentegram, thanks. Though I am against Satanism, I'm always interested in the history of religion. Hopefully you'll learn the history of your own.
Especially about Hell.
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Post by Countess Mecilia on Oct 7, 2004 23:00:31 GMT -5
Well, it happened. The supposed "devil worshipping" kid I mentioned on the first page came to school with a razor blade, and tried to cut up a bunch of people. He got arrested, but not before slashing up a bunch of girls arms, randomly... It's especially odd cause my town is one of those tiny towns with no crime at all. Seriously, there has been like... one murder in the last 10 years... yeah...
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Antenora
Detriment Deleter
Fiendish Philologist
Put down that harpoon gun, in the name of these wonderful birds!
Posts: 15,891
Likes: 113
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Post by Antenora on Oct 8, 2004 17:49:02 GMT -5
Scary. But it's good that they arrested this boy before he actually killed anyone. Fortunately, to the best of my knowledge that sort of thing has never happened in my school. All of these people are so sad that they practice these things.... Practice what things? What practices do you mean? Matthew, is it true that some early Christians believed in reincarnation, and not in Hell?
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Post by Soidanae on Oct 8, 2004 20:02:52 GMT -5
Ha! I shop at Hot Topic, and as everyone knows, I'm very much a Christian! I believe that Satanists and all types of witches (Wiccans included) are going to hell. They are completely against God and His teachings, despite what a few Wiccans claim. This is my firm belief, and if that offends somebody, tough. That was very interesting information on the penticle/pentegram, thanks. Though I am against Satanism, I'm always interested in the history of religion. Granted, more Satanists probably adhere to the christian tenets of faith (i.e. the commandments) than many christians.
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Post by BMatt on Oct 9, 2004 8:20:04 GMT -5
Scary. But it's good that they arrested this boy before he actually killed anyone. Fortunately, to the best of my knowledge that sort of thing has never happened in my school. Practice what things? What practices do you mean? Matthew, is it true that some early Christians believed in reincarnation, and not in Hell? Why yes, yes they did...
By the early fourth century, strong Christian factions were vying with each other for influence and power, while at the same time the Roman Empire was beginning to fall apart. In A.D. 325, in a move to renew the unity of the empire, the absolute dictator Emperor Constantine convened the leaders of the feuding Christian factions at the Council of Nicaea. He offered to throw his imperial power behind the Christians if they would settle their differences and agree on a single creed. Decisions made at this first council set the foundation for the Roman Catholic Church. (Soon after, the books of the Bible were fixed too.) For the sake of unity, all beliefs that conflicted with the new creed were banished; in the process the factions and writings that supported reincarnation were thrown out.
Then, with the applause and support of the Christian leaders, Constantine moved to eliminate competing religions, and to make his personal grip on the Empire even more absolute. The result of the marriage between church and imperial state was a new Church made in the image of the autocratic Roman Empire. This is why, according to some historians, the Church exalts unquestioned central authority, imposes a singular dogmatic creed on its followers, and works so hard to stamp out divergent ideas. This is important, because reincarnation fell outside the official creed.
Apparently some Christians continued to believe in reincarnation even after the Council of Nicaea, because in A.D. 553 the Church found the need to single out reincarnation and condemn it explicitly. At the Second Council of Constantinople the concept of reincarnation, bundled together with other ideas under the term "pre-existence of the soul", was decreed to be a crime worthy of excommunication and damnation ("anathema"):
If anyone assert the fabulous pre-existence of souls, and shall assert the monstrous restoration which follows from it: let him be anathema.
Why would the Church go to such lengths to discredit reincarnation? The implicit psychology of reincarnation may be the best explanation. A person who believes in reincarnation assumes responsibility for his own spiritual evolution through rebirth. He does not need priests, confessionals, and rituals to ward off damnation (all ideas, incidentally, that were not part of Jesus' teachings). He needs only to heed his own acts to himself and others. A belief in reincarnation eliminates the fear of eternal hell that the Church uses to discipline the flock. In other words, reincarnation directly undermines the authority and power of the dogmatic Church. No wonder reincarnation made the Defenders of the Faith so nervous.
Despite the decree of 553, belief in reincarnation persisted among the rank and file. It took another thousand years and much bloodshed to completely stamp out the idea. In the early thirteenth century, the Cathars, a devout and enlightened sect of Christians who believed in reincarnation, flourished in Italy and southern France. The pope launched a crusade to stop their heresy, a half million people were massacred whole villages at a time, and the Cathars were totally wiped out. This purging set the tone for the brutal Inquisition that began soon after. Not only was a belief in reincarnation cause for persecution, but so was belief in any metaphysical idea that fell outside the bounds of Church dogma.
The murderous efficiency of the Inquisition proved effective. The persecution by the institutional Church has scarred our collective psyche and surrounded us with an invisible fence dividing what is safe from what is dangerous to believe. Since then, people who harbor forbidden ideas have learned to keep their thoughts to themselves. Our cultural memory still carries the fear of reprisal for publicly associating with any occult practices, the use of psychic powers, or a belief in reincarnation.I'm sure redwine just read and understood all this...
but if you don't like it, tough!
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Post by Soidanae on Oct 9, 2004 11:59:46 GMT -5
Well...that was fascinating...
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Post by BMatt on Oct 10, 2004 10:14:38 GMT -5
Well...that was fascinating... Sorry if I stomped about...but my hackles were a bit raised by their post. I have tolerance to everything but a closed mind.
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Post by Soidanae on Oct 10, 2004 18:04:43 GMT -5
Actually, that was honest.
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Post by redwine with valium on Oct 15, 2004 14:43:44 GMT -5
Sorry if I stomped about...but my hackles were a bit raised by their post. I have tolerance to everything but a closed mind. No need to be upset, that was a very interesting post. But I must remind you, you are using the Catholic church (which is fairly unrelenting and prejudice) to represent all of Christianity. My church, Orthodoxy, is older than Catholiscism and more accepting as well, though not to the level you would wish to take it. I believe that the Inquisition was pure evil done in the guise of good. Different ideas are to be considered and discussed, not brutally eliminated. The Catholic church of medieval times was very political and controlling. And the way they spread Christianity was also horrid. The Orthodox church has never spread the Church in any way but missionary work. So you see, I'm not saying all Christianity has always been undeniably good. The church can harbor evil.
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Post by BMatt on Oct 15, 2004 23:29:36 GMT -5
But I must remind you, you are using the Catholic church (which is fairly unrelenting and prejudice) to represent all of Christianity. My church, Orthodoxy, is older than Catholiscism and more accepting as well, though not to the level you would wish to take it. Judaism is older than both, so what does that prove?
Like Roman Catholicism, Orthodoxy claims a direct line of succession back to the original apostles, so it's like arguing which twin is older isn't it?
To the observer, The Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches make the identical claim of apostolic succession, yet are so different they are not even in communion. To blame it all on "those darn Catholics" is a bit of high stepping isn't it? It was always my opinion your line was truely born in 1054 when Catholic Pope Leo IX condemned the patriarch of Constantinople, finalizing the split between the Eastern Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church.
Perhaps you are right though, Perhaps my lumping the Catholics into all of Christianity is like you lumping all of Paganism into Devil worship, huh?
Speaking of the linage to the apostles, does that include Mary? It's always been strange to me that the first person to see the risen Jesus and take the message of his resurrection to the other apostles had her Gospel fall out of favor. I wonder why that was?
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Post by Pope Nocturn Chaoshealm VII on Oct 16, 2004 0:52:54 GMT -5
wow nothing like that ever happens to me at my school.and heck im going to a freaking alternative school.i am really sry u had to experience such terror*hugs*.
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Antenora
Detriment Deleter
Fiendish Philologist
Put down that harpoon gun, in the name of these wonderful birds!
Posts: 15,891
Likes: 113
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Post by Antenora on Oct 16, 2004 6:55:10 GMT -5
Speaking of the linage to the apostles, does that include Mary? It's always been strange to me that the first person to see the risen Jesus and take the message of his resurrection to the other apostles had her Gospel fall out of favor. I wonder why that was?
I've heard something really strange about that: Mary Magdalene ran a church that rivaled Christianity, and worshipped a goddess. Or maybe the other apostles were just chauvanistic. Feel free to inform me; your posts on this matter have been quite interesting.
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Post by redwine with valium on Oct 16, 2004 16:52:46 GMT -5
Judaism is older than both, so what does that prove?
Like Roman Catholicism, Orthodoxy claims a direct line of succession back to the original apostles, so it's like arguing which twin is older isn't it?
To the observer, The Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches make the identical claim of apostolic succession, yet are so different they are not even in communion. To blame it all on "those darn Catholics" is a bit of high stepping isn't it? It was always my opinion your line was truely born in 1054 when Catholic Pope Leo IX condemned the patriarch of Constantinople, finalizing the split between the Eastern Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church.
Perhaps you are right though, Perhaps my lumping the Catholics into all of Christianity is like you lumping all of Paganism into Devil worship, huh?
Speaking of the linage to the apostles, does that include Mary? It's always been strange to me that the first person to see the risen Jesus and take the message of his resurrection to the other apostles had her Gospel fall out of favor. I wonder why that was?
What makes Orthodoxy older than Catholiscism is the fact that the Cathlic church was the one that truly changed. They're the ones who became quite corrupt, and started having a Pope. And yes, that is a fair comparison. I acknowledge that paganism and devil worship are different, so accord me the same. Now on to Mary: I know in my church Mary Magdalane and Mary mother of God bear the title "equal to the apostles". (the Catholic church places Mary the Mother on almost the same level as Jesus) Now this is the one area in which I disagree with my church. In Orthodoxy (and most Christian denominations) women cannot be ordained. I think that if women can be equal to the apostles, then doesn't that make it possible to include them in apostolic succession? I think gender shouldn't make a difference.
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Post by Soidanae on Oct 16, 2004 17:00:04 GMT -5
My church does have a female deacon...but with my lack of knowledge of such things, I don't know if that means she is ordained...
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Post by redwine with valium on Oct 16, 2004 20:25:07 GMT -5
My church does have a female deacon...but with my lack of knowledge of such things, I don't know if that means she is ordained... In my church, a deacon is a step down from a priest, and can only be male. Most deacons eventually become priests. But depending on your demonination, it could be different. (You have a church? I assume this is just the one your parents drag you to...)
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