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Post by Soidanae on Oct 16, 2004 20:33:48 GMT -5
I sing in the choir. I go every Sunday. I'm a lay reader. I'm an active member of my age's sunday-school-like thing (granted, we also have an agnostic and a person who only believes in God he case he does...)
And it's Episcopal.
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Post by BMatt on Oct 17, 2004 9:26:28 GMT -5
I acknowledge that paganism and devil worship are different, so accord me the same. When you say things like this, it's hard to discern. Let's be honest, You believe anyone who is not of your particular belief is going to hell. The Catholics are most certainly going to hell, as they are heretics, they in turn think you are going to hell...That's where I mentioned being closed minded...or as I call it "Blinded by faith".
The problems with being blinded by what is in the book is this:
What books do we consider canon? Let's through them all on the table...the books that don't fall off get to stay in.
In the words of Tori Amos "I think the good book is missing some pages".
Males have dominated every aspect of Christianity, and there is no bigger example than Mary and her Gospel. A text Were it not for the machinations of Peter, I dare say things might be a bit different in all the faiths....
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Post by redwine with valium on Oct 17, 2004 18:46:54 GMT -5
Let's be honest, You believe anyone who is not of your particular belief is going to hell. The Catholics are most certainly going to hell, as they are heretics, they in turn think you are going to hell...That's where I mentioned being closed minded...or as I call it "Blinded by faith". Not true. I think that those who believe in God in some way (Christians, possibly Muslims and Jews and other religions) might very well go to heaven. I honestly don't know. I don't know about you, but I don't have God's email address to ask Him. But God has specifically condemned all witchcraft (Wiccans) and devil-worshipers (which should be obvious). How can God take you to His house (heaven) when you don't want to go?
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Post by BMatt on Oct 17, 2004 19:29:27 GMT -5
Not true. I think that those who believe in God in some way (Christians, possibly Muslims and Jews and other religions) might very well go to heaven. I honestly don't know. I don't know about you, but I don't have God's email address to ask Him. But God has specifically condemned all witchcraft (Wiccans) and devil-worshipers (which should be obvious). How can God take you to His house (heaven) when you don't want to go? I wonder where the heathens went before there was a Christianity? I wonder where the other 67% of the world that believes in other things other than Christianity goes?
By and by....got some verses to back up all that specific condemnation?
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Antenora
Detriment Deleter
Fiendish Philologist
Put down that harpoon gun, in the name of these wonderful birds!
Posts: 15,891
Likes: 113
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Post by Antenora on Oct 18, 2004 8:20:52 GMT -5
Isn't there a Bible verse that says "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" but the word "witch" also translates as "poisoner"? I'm not sure if that really relates to redwine condemning people, but it's worth noting. Also, what redwine said seems to contradict something she said in the "Heaven and Hell" thread(I wish I'd quoted her earlier, the thread is on the third page now). I believe that some people go to Heaven and some to Hell, but nobody has the right to tell anybody else that they are condemned. I mean, think about it, that's the worst sort of egotism: it's like saying that you know what God's thinking and are therefore as smart as Him.
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Post by BMatt on Oct 18, 2004 10:38:17 GMT -5
Well done, Tocuna.
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Post by redwine with valium on Oct 23, 2004 11:39:30 GMT -5
Also, what redwine said seems to contradict something she said in the "Heaven and Hell" thread(I wish I'd quoted her earlier, the thread is on the third page now). I was wondering if somebody would pick up on that . I do believe I worded that quote wrong. What I meant was, everyone who believes in some sort of God might or might not go to heaven, and who are we to say their specific beliefs are wrong? But wiccans and devil worshippers aren't attempting to get to heaven, they don't want to be "saved", and they work in complete opposition to the very idea of God and salvation. Make a bit more sense?
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Antenora
Detriment Deleter
Fiendish Philologist
Put down that harpoon gun, in the name of these wonderful birds!
Posts: 15,891
Likes: 113
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Post by Antenora on Oct 23, 2004 11:51:49 GMT -5
This is a question to consider: If a person strongly believes that they'll be reincarnated, and wants to be reborn, will God let them be reborn? Instead of having them go to heaven? And what about those who don't believe in any sort of life after death, but think they'll just sort of go to sleep forever?
I hope Kobolos will post here again, he probably has more intelligent things to say than I.
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Post by redwine with valium on Oct 23, 2004 15:26:44 GMT -5
This is a question to consider: If a person strongly believes that they'll be reincarnated, and wants to be reborn, will God let them be reborn? Instead of having them go to heaven? And what about those who don't believe in any sort of life after death, but think they'll just sort of go to sleep forever? Well, do your expectations shape reality? Not usually, no. Those who believe there's no life after death, probably athiests, will still meet God/Satan. And reincarnation? I don't believe it occurs, so I don't think that's really an option. But that's a matter of belief. Really the whole thing I just posted is a matter of belief, except for the first sentence or so.
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Post by Soidanae on Oct 23, 2004 15:28:30 GMT -5
This is a question to consider: If a person strongly believes that they'll be reincarnated, and wants to be reborn, will God let them be reborn? Instead of having them go to heaven? And what about those who don't believe in any sort of life after death, but think they'll just sort of go to sleep forever? Well, do your expectations shape reality? Not usually, no. Those who believe there's life after death will not meet God/Satan. And reincarnation? I don't believe it occurs, so I don't think that's really an option. But that's a matter of belief. Really the whole thing I just posted is a matter of belief, except for the first sentence or so.
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Antenora
Detriment Deleter
Fiendish Philologist
Put down that harpoon gun, in the name of these wonderful birds!
Posts: 15,891
Likes: 113
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Post by Antenora on Oct 23, 2004 15:31:42 GMT -5
Well, do your expectations shape reality? Not usually, no. Those who believe there's no life after death, probably athiests, will still meet God/Satan. And reincarnation? I don't believe it occurs, so I don't think that's really an option. But that's a matter of belief. Really the whole thing I just posted is a matter of belief, except for the first sentence or so. Well, do your expectations shape reality? Not usually, no. Those who believe there's life after death will not meet God/Satan. And reincarnation? I don't believe it occurs, so I don't think that's really an option. But that's a matter of belief. Really the whole thing I just posted is a matter of belief, except for the first sentence or so. Interesting answers, both. While I don't really agree with either of you, I think you are both quite intelligent, and I respect your beliefs. [/random praise]
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Post by Dante on Oct 23, 2004 15:32:46 GMT -5
Well, do your expectations shape reality? Not usually, no. Those who believe there's no life after death, probably athiests, will still meet God/Satan. And reincarnation? I don't believe it occurs, so I don't think that's really an option. But that's a matter of belief. Really the whole thing I just posted is a matter of belief, except for the first sentence or so. Well, do your expectations shape reality? Not usually, no. Those who believe there's life after death will not meet God/Satan. And reincarnation? I don't believe it occurs, so I don't think that's really an option. But that's a matter of belief. Really the whole thing I just posted is a matter of belief, except for the first sentence or so. Hmm... I'm noticing some similarity there, but I can't quite put my finger on it... Either way, in a hypothetical situation, then God would probably still take them on the normal route, i.e. Heaven or Hell. He doesn't seem the sort to randomly make people's beliefs real.
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Post by redwine with valium on Oct 23, 2004 15:32:47 GMT -5
By changing a few words of my post you made it entirely different.....I suppose that is the best way for us to see each other's differences.
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Post by Soidanae on Oct 23, 2004 15:35:20 GMT -5
I moved a negative and took out two words and a comma, resulting in my creed from yours.
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Post by redwine with valium on Oct 23, 2004 15:38:20 GMT -5
I moved a negative and took out two words and a comma, resulting in my creed from yours. I still maintain that the thought of life being a pointless 100-or-so-year excursion is really hopeless and sad.
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