Possible Traitors

[thistledown]

Okay. The rare editon of TBB states at the back (in the author notes) that it was rumored that Violet Baudelaire came into contact with the FFP on her third visit to Briney Beach (spelling?). It says to turn to book the thirteenth for more information on the topic. Also, the initials F-F-P were defined in an earlier note as Female Finnish Pirates that Lemony was going to ask a semi-retired geologist about. So does this mean that Violet is somehow caught up with pirates? And at the end of TPP, they are out at sea...so this makes me think---basically, is Violet a quisling? (means 'traitor') was she the one the unauthorized autobiography was talking about during the transcript at the VFD meeting (the part about infiltration). Or is Violet involved with the traitor? Can this traitor possibly be Quigley (whose name sounds so like quisling...)? Sorry. I know that is a lot of questions...but I am just curious...

[jtb]

Really nice theory about Quigley! I am going to exalt you. For this theory. Because I feel like it.

[thistledown]

Thanks! *smiles broadly* I have never had a chance to post it until now. Ever since I got the rare edition two years ago (or so...) I had this little theory, but the ending of TPP really got me actually believing it! I don't know. Since Violet's questionable disappearance in THH (which was in my opinion, an elaborate plan to capture the other siblings...anesthesia doesn't wear off that fast! I know this should be in another section but it does tie into my theory...plus, the hook handed man said that olaf said whoever caught them first would get to choose where to go for dinner. This meant that Esme and the rest allowed Klaus and Sunny to 'rescue' Violet.), I started not trusting her. And perhaps Quigley was not kissing her on the mountaintop, but giving her a message or something...I dunno.

[Dante]

That would be quite a twist, although who would Violet be working for? Not Olaf, as he tried to drop her off a mountain at the end of TCC with Klaus. It'd also imply Lemony's complicity, since he seems to know what happened on the ledge in TSS but decided to give Violet some privacy.

Also, can the F.F.P. be all bad if Lemony seems not at all apprehensive to get in touch with them, as he states in the BBRE? "Tomorrow afternoon, the semiretired amateur geologist has promised to put me in touch with current members of the F.F.P. so I can determine if there is any truth to the rumour" etc., etc. Again, implies his complicity, if Violet is a traitor.

Quigley's a problem child. On the one hand, in TSS he seemed to know a lot more than he let on, and I remember the big debates being on how far we could trust Quigley. But in TGG and TPP, aside from stealing a helicopter (which Kit mentions without a hint of shock or disapproval, so I'm guessing that's not particularly important), he seems quite clean and trustworthy, although Handler does seem to be repeatedly pushing him out of book after book. So I don't think we can be sure of him, although it sounds like B13's going to be packed with a lot of loose ends to be tied up so would any more be introduced if Handler could help it?

Overall, while there can be some hints of suspicion if you're looking for that, again and again Violet defies the antagonists and sticks with her family, while if she's in with Olaf then there would have been plenty of opportunities for her to reveal herself - why not in TGG, for example, when Olaf captured the Queequeg? (Also, I've been put out by anaesthesia a few times, and while my memory in general isn't that good, I don't recall Violet's experiences being wildly unrealistic.) So I won't partake of this theory for now, although if it turns out true then you're welcome to boast.

Edit: Also, this thread's title is kinda vague, since the F.F.P. are only really a sideline to the main point, so perhaps you might want to change it to something you would feel is more fitting?

[Brutuz]

I don't think that Voilet is a trator, as she's always thinking of that promace to her Parents.

[thistledown]

True, but Quigley might be a traitor...and if he is, than Violet may be unwittingly helping him...maybe?

PS: Dante, I changed the subject title thingy...is the new one OK?

[Dante]

thistledown said:

True, but Quigley might be a traitor...and if he is, than Violet may be unwittingly helping him...maybe?

That I think is more plausible; she would probably have a lot of faith in Quigley, judging from how much she likes him, judging from the end of TGG. (Also, good new title.)

[Zavi]

Although I don't think Quigley would do such a thing now, I did strongly at one point. It's certainly plausible; something Handler would do. I don't think the Quigley-Quisling connection is relevant, however, it's just a name. This could be argued, however, because of Isadora Duncan and the seemingly random selection of the name "Quigley". It's possible, but doesn't seem like it would work out, if you know what I'm saying.

But Violet, a traitor? No, not knowlingly, at least. I do like the theory of her helping Quigley in his schemes and her not even knowing, it's very possible. I just don't know who she would want to betray on her own will...besides Olaf, but you can't really betray someone who isn't trusted in the first place anyway.

[thistledown]

Oh yeah, one more little thing about the FFP: At the end of TGG, with that ?-shaped ship that Olaf was afraid of--we never figured out who that was. It can't be the man with a beard but no hair and his woman accomplice because they were with the freaks (please correct me if I am wrong). Violet also told her siblings to be quiet then. Nextly, this was not said in the book, but I got a feeling--just a gut feeling--that Violet knew what it was. Could it possibly be the FFP?

Btw, thanks Dante. You were right, the other title was a bit vague.

zavi said:

I just don't know who she would want to betray on her own will...

Very true. Except for perhaps VFD. Remember in TPP when she says something like ´why weren't we taken?´ She might have known that her parents were in some organization. So maybe this is why she (possibly) joined the FFP. She could have been angry at VFD for not choosing her. Also, I forget which book (might be TPP) but Klaus or Violet says that their mother said that as soon as Sunny could walk she would be going places. Does this mean VFD wanted to take Sunny? So maybe Violet felt left out. Yeah, I know this is pretty far-fetched, but, like Zavi, I just can't imagine who she would have a grudge on...that was something I didn't think about until now.

PS: FFP could also stand for Famous French Poets. Charles Baudelaire was a Famous French Poet. He was the author of La Beatrice and Les Fleurs Du Mal. Les Fleurs Du Mal translates into The Flowers of Evil...Violet is a flower...also, in La Beatrice it says this: "Is it not a pity to see this bon vivant,
This tramp, this queer fish, this actor without a job,
Because he knows how to play skillfully his role,
Wish to interest in the song of his woes
The eagles, the crickets, the brooks, and the flowers,
And even to us, authors of that hackneyed drivel,
Bellow the recital of his public tirades?"

Sounds like Snicket got some ideas from here, eh? In my opinion, this talks about how Olaf wins over the eagles, destroys the crickets (symbol of VFD), pollutes the Stricken Stream, and perhaps is aided by...Violet?!

Holy...that was REALLY, REALLY long!!! Sorry!

[Antenora]

I think you're reading a bit too much significance into that allusion; the VFD crickets seem to be more of a Charlotte's Web reference, and the eagles are something of a convenient creature for carrying people off.

I don't think Violet would turn against her siblings and help Olaf; she's become a mother figure to them, and cares about them a lot.

As for the Question Mark, in TGG Lemony specifically says that he won't tell us what it is. (pg 311).I'm not sure, however, if that rules out hints, vague half-truths, or even a revelation by another character. However, I might prefer it if the Question Mark were left unresolved, the one mystery whose answer can't be truly known.

[thistledown]

I think I phrased that part about Violet a little badly. I meant that to give more proof to my previous statement that Violet could be helping the traitor without her knowing it. Sorry about the mistake in clarity.

Edit: (I edit sooo much) Antenora: Thanks! I didn't realize the whole cricket/eagle thing! ;D But still, as aforementioned, I cannot help but think the references to bad flowers in the C. Baudelaire poems are something important. I think this because at the end of the authors notes in the rare edition, he says something like: just because you don't understand something does not make it untrue...and then it has the french version of La Beatrice, which I had translated a couple of times by my buddy in French 5 (one rhyming version, one accurate non-rhyming)

[Dante]

I myself would tend towards the opinion that, in the BBRE, only the quoted part of La Béatrice is relevant. Handler's writing his own story, not Poe's; if one part of a poem fits in with his vision, he'll use it, but that doesn't bind him to the rest of the poem. That said, I don't think all his influences are quoted or cited.

Edit: As I'm sure is becoming obvious, my opinions tend towards caution rather than conclusion...

[Antenora]

ffwf said:

I myself would tend towards the opinion that, in the BBRE, only the quoted part of La Béatrice is relevant. Handler's writing his own story, not Poe's; if one part of a poem fits in with his vision, he'll use it, but that doesn't bind him to the rest of the poem.

I concur. While some of Handler's allusions may carry some symbolism, they most likely aren't intended as direct clues to the plot.

[thistledown]

You have a point, Dante, caution probably is better in situations like these--I just have a tendancy to jump to conclusions, however irrational they might be. ;D lol.

[Jacques the Environmentalist]

I checked and in tgg it definitely says the Baudelaires could not tell what the ? was, therefore Violet didn't know any more than the others.
And as said before Violet had ample opportunities to turn the siblings in.
Reveal themselves to Olaf in tcc?
Make a loud noise and surrender herself and Quigley to Olaf while they were hiding under the car in tss?
Not come up with the idea about the sugarbowl that stalled olaf long enough for them to get away in tss?
No, Violet's definitely not working for Olaf knowingly.

And how could Violet be helping olaf unknowingly through quigley? She hasn't talked to him since the end of tss, he's sent her a telegram and that's all. This telegram lead them to Kit who was definitely a good person. I don't see how Quigley would be a traitor.